Steve Young against Prop 8

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by NorCal Cat

Why don't you educate yourself a little before posting on this subject, and especially before voting? Marriage MUST be taught in any school that teaches sex ed! Allow me to educate you:

Education Code section 51933 makes it clear that schools that teach "comprehensive sex education" have to teach, "respect for marriage and committed relationships". This is something no school district can get around.

It is the choice of school districts whether or not they teach sex education. This is why the Anti- Proposition 8 campaign and Jack O'Connell say there is no requirement to teach about marriage.

What Jack O'Connell knows but doesn't say is that 96% of school districts teach comprehensive sex education. Those numbers are from O'Connell's California Department of Education. 96% must teach respect for marriage.

Of course some teacher can still tell their students about gay relationships, but they would not be OBLIGATED to under the law like they would if Prop 8 doesn't pass.

So if most schools already teach sex ed...and the education code you just cited requires teaching about marriage AND committed relationships, then what impact does Prop 8 have? None.

btw, we already hashed this out in much greater detail a few days ago, including a more in depth analysis of this code section and others, so you are a day late and a dollar short on this one. Do a search and you should find it pretty easily. You didn't even quote the entire relevant code section.

[NorCal Cat]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

By the way you talk about gays, it appears you do not sustain the prophets.

I sustain the prophets on this issue. Why don't you?
Oh really? And how do I talk about gays? I love gays. I hate homosexuality, and any policies that trt to indoctrinate my kids about it being a moral lifestyle.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by NorCal Cat

There is in this case. That is, if you sustain the men in Salt Lake as prophets. Which I assume you do. Don't you?

You define sustain differently than I.

First, I don't live in California, so I have no duties relative to Prop 8.

Second, although I may have voted in favor of it, I don't find LDS who vote against it to fail to sustain the FP.

Sustain to me means, to ponder the issue seriously, considering the recommendations of the FP and then come to my own conclusion with which I feel comfortable. If a person comes to a different conclusion that the FP, I believe they sustained the FP by careful consideration, so long as they don't deride the FP for the FP's perspective.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by NorCal Cat

I sustain the prophets on this issue. Why don't you?
Oh really? And how do I talk about gays? I love gays.

lol. nice. very compelling.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by NorCal Cat

Why don't you educate yourself a little before posting on this subject, and especially before voting? Marriage MUST be taught in any school that teaches sex ed! Allow me to educate you:

Education Code section 51933 makes it clear that schools that teach "comprehensive sex education" have to teach, "respect for marriage and committed relationships". This is something no school district can get around.

It is the choice of school districts whether or not they teach sex education. This is why the Anti- Proposition 8 campaign and Jack O'Connell say there is no requirement to teach about marriage.

What Jack O'Connell knows but doesn't say is that 96% of school districts teach comprehensive sex education. Those numbers are from O'Connell's California Department of Education. 96% must teach respect for marriage.

Of course some teacher can still tell their students about gay relationships, but they would not be OBLIGATED to under the law like they would if Prop 8 doesn't pass.

It's a social issue and if you fail to discuss social issues with your children, you are neglecting your duty as a parent.

I'm not afraid of sexual education for my children, even if some of the education differs from my perspective. In fact, in order to live fulfilled lives, I'd prefer my children receive plenty of education on sexuality. If our home is sufficiently open, then my children can judge the information based on what we also present. If we present the truth, they should be able to judge that.

[NorCal Cat]

Originally Posted by Archaea

You define sustain differently than I.

First, I don't live in California, so I have no duties relative to Prop 8.

Second, although I may have voted in favor of it, I don't find LDS who vote against it to fail to sustain the FP.

Sustain to me means, to ponder the issue seriously, considering the recommendations of the FP and then come to my own conclusion with which I feel comfortable. If a person comes to a different conclusion that the FP, I believe they sustained the FP by careful consideration, so long as they don't deride the FP for the FP's perspective.

Oh, so God is telling you something different than the FP with regard to same sex marriage eh? Wow, you must be special.

[NorCal Cat]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

So if most schools already teach sex ed...and the education code you just cited requires teaching about marriage AND committed relationships, then what impact does Prop 8 have? None.

btw, we already hashed this out in much greater detail a few days ago, including a more in depth analysis of this code section and others, so you are a day late and a dollar short on this one. Do a search and you should find it pretty easily. You didn't even quote the entire relevant code section.

The impact is that schools will be teaching that gay marriage is moral, and ok. Hello?

Thanks for the update. Unlike you, I have more important things to do with my life than post on CG every day.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by NorCal Cat

Oh, so God is telling you something different than the FP with regard to same sex marriage eh? Wow, you must be special.

Perhaps the FP is motivating people to simply think about issues, promoting a culturally safe position but still encourage a development of conscience. In your world of individuative-reflective faith, you may feel comfortable with only one conclusion.

[NorCal Cat]

Originally Posted by Archaea

It's a social issue and if you fail to discuss social issues with your children, you are neglecting your duty as a parent.

I'm not afraid of sexual education for my children, even if some of the education differs from my perspective. In fact, in order to live fulfilled lives, I'd prefer my children receive plenty of education on sexuality. If our home is sufficiently open, then my children can judge the information based on what we also present. If we present the truth, they should be able to judge that.

No argument here. I still will oppose gay marriage, and oppose anything I deem inappropriate for the schools to be teaching my kids.

[NorCal Cat]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Perhaps the FP is motivating people to simply think about issues, promoting a culturally safe position but still encourage a development of conscience. In your world of individuative-reflective faith, you may feel comfortable with only one conclusion.

Right. Then why is the FP so adamantly pushing everyone to vote for traditional marriage, and directing everyone to fast for the passage of prop 8? Why don't they take a neutral stance, and simply tell us to think about the issue?