Suicide - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

Alkili · 01-17-2006, 07:07 PM

i have been wondering what happens to people who commit suicide.

i have heard from church leaders before that people who commit suicide are pretty much damned. that doesn't really jive well with my thoughts about the mercy of God.

i was at a funeral once of someone who commited suicide and overheard someone telling one of the family members the idea that their loved one had no hope.

i didn't feel it was a very appropriate time to have that dicussion, and at the time it didn't seem right that justice can claim someome from their family members forever.

non sequitur · 01-17-2006, 07:16 PM

If you believe in a just God, you cannot possibly believe in the idea of eternal damnation for someone who commits suicide. It defies logic.

Indy Coug · 01-17-2006, 07:25 PM

You can't dump every suicide into the same bucket. I personally don't know what happens to those that commit suicide, but I don't think I'm going out too far on a limb to say they all aren't automatically doomed to eternal damnation.

SteelBlue · 01-17-2006, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alkili

i have heard from church leaders before that people who commit suicide are pretty much damned. that doesn't really jive well with my thoughts about the mercy of God.

I think that the suicide=automatic damnation idea is a vestige of the old days when little was known about mental illness and leaders were often asked to opine on what would and wouldn't get one sent to hell. I think that the idea came from the thought that suicide was "self murder" and therefore equal to murder on the punishment scale. I don't believe any such thought ever approached the point of being doctrine. It would not surprise me if the idea was perpetuated by the book Mormon Doctrine to be honest with you. I don't have a copy handy and so I can't say for sure.

I don't think you'd be able to find any recent commentary on the subject that even approached the suicide=damnation idea. On the contrary, I think you would likely find a talk or 2 given in the last 15 years that would emphasize mercy for those who had done so. Now, when it comes to euthanasia, the church takes a hard line stance. But that is a whole different animal.

All-American · 01-17-2006, 07:41 PM

Is suicide wrong? Undoubtedly. However, you have to take into account the mental state of one who commits suicide. I can't imagine that most people who commit suicide were in a stable mental state. Accountability is limited, if not completely removed, in such a state.

pedrotea · 01-17-2006, 08:21 PM

not sure I can add anything that hasn't already been said, but here is my two cents. We all make choices in life, and in making those choices we all have different circumstances that will lead to the choice we make. (not sure if that makes sense but oh well). I think that just like everything else that we do, we will be judged on a case by case basis. That is the beauty of the whole mercy thing.

fuegote · 01-17-2006, 08:39 PM

This is one reason the Atonement is so amazing. nothing in the church, or nothing Jesus Christ did on earth was as a group. Every ordinance, every action was done individually, "one by one."

So to say that all suicides are damned to me doesn't feel right. I think each will be dealt with on an individual basis.

I do think that Constantine was a great movie and discussed the catholic view on suicide: automatic damnation.

DirtyHippieUTE · 01-17-2006, 08:50 PM

The whole suicide = damnation thing rings a little to Catholic for me. I know that was (possibly is) one of their claims. I wonder if we picked it up from them and kind of adopted it as one of our little phantom doctrines.

I agree with what most of you have said. No one knows how a suicide will be judged. Even our imperfect system of laws recognizes diminished capacity. It's hard to imagine that God doesn't take that into account.

outlier · 01-17-2006, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by All-American

Is suicide wrong? Undoubtedly. However, you have to take into account the mental state of one who commits suicide. I can't imagine that most people who commit suicide were in a stable mental state. Accountability is limited, if not completely removed, in such a state.

Maybe they weren't valiant in the pre-existence.

Yeah, I'm sort of kidding. Honestly, I abhor discussions about who gets into heaven and who doesn't -- unless we're talking about me personally, that's God's business, not mine.

o

FMCoug · 01-18-2006, 12:20 AM

I am certain there are some suicides that would qualify as "self murder". Not everybody who commits suicide is mentally ill. A criminal who goes out in a blaze of glory instead of prison and euthanasia are two examples.

But the vast majority of suicides are suffering from severe mental illness and are not accountable for their actions.

01-17-2006, 07:07 PM	#1
Alkili Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Utah Posts: 263	Suicide i have been wondering what happens to people who commit suicide. i have heard from church leaders before that people who commit suicide are pretty much damned. that doesn't really jive well with my thoughts about the mercy of God. i was at a funeral once of someone who commited suicide and overheard someone telling one of the family members the idea that their loved one had no hope. i didn't feel it was a very appropriate time to have that dicussion, and at the time it didn't seem right that justice can claim someome from their family members forever. __________________ Dark is the Night, but I begin to see the light.

01-17-2006, 07:16 PM	#2
non sequitur Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 1,964	If you believe in a just God, you cannot possibly believe in the idea of eternal damnation for someone who commits suicide. It defies logic. __________________ ...You've been under attack for days, there's a soldier down, he's wounded, gangrene's setting in, 'Who's used all the penicillin?' 'Oh, Mark Paxson sir, he's got knob rot off of some tart.'" - Gareth Keenan

01-17-2006, 08:39 PM	#7
fuegote Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 724	This is one reason the Atonement is so amazing. nothing in the church, or nothing Jesus Christ did on earth was as a group. Every ordinance, every action was done individually, "one by one." So to say that all suicides are damned to me doesn't feel right. I think each will be dealt with on an individual basis. I do think that Constantine was a great movie and discussed the catholic view on suicide: automatic damnation. __________________ http://www.cavaliersbrigade.com home of the greatest fans in MLS.

01-17-2006, 07:25 PM	#3
Indy Coug Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Between Iraq and a hard place Posts: 7,569	You can't dump every suicide into the same bucket. I personally don't know what happens to those that commit suicide, but I don't think I'm going out too far on a limb to say they all aren't automatically doomed to eternal damnation.

01-17-2006, 07:41 PM	#5
All-American Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3,420	Is suicide wrong? Undoubtedly. However, you have to take into account the mental state of one who commits suicide. I can't imagine that most people who commit suicide were in a stable mental state. Accountability is limited, if not completely removed, in such a state.

01-17-2006, 08:21 PM	#6
pedrotea Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Hooper, UT Posts: 26	not sure I can add anything that hasn't already been said, but here is my two cents. We all make choices in life, and in making those choices we all have different circumstances that will lead to the choice we make. (not sure if that makes sense but oh well). I think that just like everything else that we do, we will be judged on a case by case basis. That is the beauty of the whole mercy thing.

01-17-2006, 08:50 PM	#8
DirtyHippieUTE Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Moscow, ID Posts: 1,151	The whole suicide = damnation thing rings a little to Catholic for me. I know that was (possibly is) one of their claims. I wonder if we picked it up from them and kind of adopted it as one of our little phantom doctrines. I agree with what most of you have said. No one knows how a suicide will be judged. Even our imperfect system of laws recognizes diminished capacity. It's hard to imagine that God doesn't take that into account.

01-18-2006, 12:20 AM	#10
FMCoug Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kaysville, UT Posts: 3,151	I am certain there are some suicides that would qualify as "self murder". Not everybody who commits suicide is mentally ill. A criminal who goes out in a blaze of glory instead of prison and euthanasia are two examples. But the vast majority of suicides are suffering from severe mental illness and are not accountable for their actions.