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View Poll Results: Great Apostasy?
Yes, the Original Truth was fully revealed and lost through the machinations of men 7 46.67%
Yes the Pristine Church was perfect and corrupted by orthodox 2 13.33%
No, the early Church was in its infancy and lacked direction 2 13.33%
No the early Church had priesthood keys which were lost, but did not result in a great apostasy 4 26.67%
Voters: 15. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-06-2008, 11:22 PM   #21
MikeWaters
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You said where we are today is because of the RCC. I asked, "where are we today?"
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Old 07-07-2008, 03:45 AM   #22
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I read "The Great Apostasy" on my mission. Even as a brain washed young pup I was shocked at how poorly written it was, and the facile dismissal of two thousand years of history, and crude anti-Catholicism. I read "Jesus the Christ," and it has left almost no impression on me at all. This is unusual, because as you may have noted, when I take the time to read a complicated book I usually drill down, spend time reading it, remember lines, rearead passages, etc. It becomes a part of me. All I remember about Jesus the Christ is that it was extremely derivative when it didn't engage in flights of fancy about events for which there is no legitimate historical record at all.

There are many Mormon scholars like B.H. Roberts, Henry Eyring, Rex Lee, and Sterlign McMurrin for which I have a lot of respect. From what I've seen, Talmage was a pretender.
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Old 07-07-2008, 03:47 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
I read "The Great Apostasy" on my mission. Even as a brain washed young pup I was shocked at how poorly written it was, and the facile dismissal of two thousand years of history, and crude anti-Catholicism. I read "Jesus the Christ," and it has left almost no impression on me at all. This is unusual, because as you may have noted, when I take the time to read a complicated book I usually drill down, spend time reading it, remember lines, rearead passages, etc. It becomes a part of me. All I remember about Jesus the Christ is that it was extremely derivative when it didn't engage in flights of fancy about events for which there is no legitimate historical record at all.

There are many Mormon scholars like B.H. Roberts, Henry Eyring, Rex Lee, and Sterlign McMurrin for which I have a lot of respect. From what I've seen, Talmage was a pretender.
Are you shocked at crude Anti-Mormonism?
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Old 07-07-2008, 04:05 AM   #24
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Quote:
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Are you shocked at crude Anti-Mormonism?
I'm not usually impressed with or intertested in any internicene feuds within monotheism (except the ones long ago that were accompanied by swords and lances, etc.). So, no, I find the meat ax like Talmage used equally unintresting when wielded at Mormons by rival religious groups.
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Old 07-07-2008, 04:13 AM   #25
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Paine was a product of the false Christian Dogmas taught in his era. He simply couldn't fall for the same stuff that Joseph Smith failed to grasp a generation later.
Where do you get this nonsensical chauvensim? Paine would not have been interested in Mormonism's magic world view. He'd have been hostile to it if it affected his life at all. Actually, the founders' atheism or deism or whatever you want to call it was indispensable to their fitness to accomplish the radical and brilliant reforms achieved.
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Old 07-07-2008, 04:45 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
For one thing, as has been discussed here before, I don't think there's really much practical difference between atheists, deists, or agnostics, except for self-identification maybe for political purposes.

Paine was hard core atheist. He loathed Christianity, whatever gloss you want to put on it, thought the Bible was a fable. Back then, that meant you were an atheist, as atheist as it got.

Seriously, can you give me a quote where he invokes God?
Paine did not like any organized religion. However, I will take him at his word when he said he believed in God. Here is a quote from The Age of Reason: " I believe in one God, and no more; and I hope for happiness beyond this life". That doesn't sound like an atheist to me.

He also has some great views on revelation.
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Old 01-16-2018, 03:40 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
Mormons have long accepted as a cultural piece of truth that some "Great Apostasy" from original pristine truth occurred after the First Century. Seattle mockingly has pointed out the absurdities of the proposition.

Do you believe it's (a) still taught or (b) a correct principle?
People who've read Bart Ehrman's Lost Christianities tell me that whatever system Jesus set up collapsed after he was gone.

That's apostasy of authority.

Apostasy of truth is much easier to demonstrate. It's much easier to trace how homoousios, creation ex nihilo, rejection of divine embodiment, etc. entered Christianity.
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