Provocative quotes in today's Priesthood/RS lesson

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

We had the same lesson today. I thought that whoever wrote that lesson did a pretty poor job with balance. The mullahs in our quorum had a heyday today.

The most provocative quotes were the three at the end. Something about "Stick with the herd. The herd is never wrong."

I believe the term you are looking for is "the Twelve Apostles." Confusing, I know.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by Tex

I believe the term you are looking for is "the Twelve Apostles." Confusing, I know.

Only one of the three quotes was phrased that way. Kind of interesting that they would show the same quote remembered so differently by three men.

Orson Hyde, a member of the Quorum of the Twelve, reported: “Joseph the Prophet … said, ‘Brethren, remember that the majority of this people will never go astray; and as long as you keep with the majority you are sure to enter the celestial kingdom.’ ”

William G. Nelson reported: “I have heard the Prophet speak in public on many occasions. In one meeting I heard him say: ‘I will give you a key that will never rust,—if you will stay with the majority of the Twelve Apostles, and the records of the Church, you will never be led astray.’ The history of the Church has proven this to be true.”

Ezra T. Clark remembered: “I heard the Prophet Joseph say that he would give the Saints a key whereby they would never be led away or deceived, and that was: The Lord would never suffer a majority of this people to be led away or deceived by imposters, nor would He allow the records of this Church to fall into the hands of the enemy.”

Either way, it seemed like an odd way to wrap up the lesson. That's a pretty accurate rule of thumb, but it hardly seems like an inspiring approach to testimony and faithfulness.

[FarrahWaters]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

Either way, it seemed like an odd way to wrap up the lesson. That's a pretty accurate rule of thumb, but it hardly seems like an inspiring approach to testimony and faithfulness.

I also thought it was a little heavy-handed. More of an alienating than inclusive statement at the end to those who might feel they don't fit the typical Mormon mold. The teacher in our class asked "Who has had a problem or disagreed with someone in a leadership position in our church?" There was an awkward silence where nobody spoke until one woman shot her hand up and said, "I have!" The R.S. President intervened at this point and spoke about how she has discovered the bishop is imperfect and just flat out wrong at times, but she still sustains and respects him, and knows he would never lead us astray.

[MikeWaters]

The church is actually set up, in many respects, to prevent the abuse of a man in leadership.

That's why we have counselors and councils, and sustainings, as well as appeals.

But none of those systems will work if every single person just says "yessir".

As a rule, a person who can't take advice, and can't be questioned about anything, is probably going to be a crappy leader.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

Only one of the three quotes was phrased that way. Kind of interesting that they would show the same quote remembered so differently by three men.

Either way, it seemed like an odd way to wrap up the lesson. That's a pretty accurate rule of thumb, but it hardly seems like an inspiring approach to testimony and faithfulness.

I'm not sure I found the lesson particularly inspiring either, but I'm also not sure that was the point. It seemed like a warning to me.

Originally Posted by FarrahWaters

I also thought it was a little heavy-handed. More of an alienating than inclusive statement at the end to those who might feel they don't fit the typical Mormon mold. The teacher in our class asked "Who has had a problem or disagreed with someone in a leadership position in our church?" There was an awkward silence where nobody spoke until one woman shot her hand up and said, "I have!" The R.S. President intervened at this point and spoke about how she has discovered the bishop is imperfect and just flat out wrong at times, but she still sustains and respects him, and knows he would never lead us astray.

I think this lesson is better when presented as instruction on personal discipleship, rather than when it's ok to "judge" your leaders.

[Sleeping in EQ]

I want to see a RS/Priesthood manual that is a selection of the best writings of Chieko Okazaki.

[MikeWaters]

I was told in training that the most important predictor of a young man's future activity in teh church, whether he goes on a mission or not, is testimony.

Yet I have observed that the curriculum for the YM has an extremely small focus on testimony.

I thought it would be interesting to do a monthly series where we invite an elder or high priest to come in and discuss, for the lesson, how he came to have a testimony. Hopefully there would be a wide range of open and honest approaches.

Unfortunately, my inspiration is a violation of church policy. That is, I have invented a new curriculum that is not approved, and would supplant the one that has been inspired by God, through his authorities.

Again, we live in a church that feels like McDonalds sometimes, and has no suggestion box.

Hopefully my stake will not repeat its performance of a few years ago, in stake conference meetings, saying that there were exactly ZERO missionaries in the field from my stake.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I was told in training that the most important predictor of a young man's future activity in teh church, whether he goes on a mission or not, is testimony.

Yet I have observed that the curriculum for the YM has an extremely small focus on testimony.

I thought it would be interesting to do a monthly series where we invite an elder or high priest to come in and discuss, for the lesson, how he came to have a testimony. Hopefully there would be a wide range of open and honest approaches.

Unfortunately, my inspiration is a violation of church policy. That is, I have invented a new curriculum that is not approved, and would supplant the one that has been inspired by God, through his authorities.

Again, we live in a church that feels like McDonalds sometimes, and has no suggestion box.

Hopefully my stake will not repeat its performance of a few years ago, in stake conference meetings, saying that there were exactly ZERO missionaries in the field from my stake.

I like your approach; ask the bishop if he approves and do it.