The church has spoken...

[bluegoose]

Originally Posted by Archaea

What did the Church lose? Favor with gays? Did it ever have any favor with gays? So, can it lose something it never had?

It loses those gay members of the church who wish to remain a part of the church, but don't feel like they have a place.

[Solon]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

Once again, it is a hollow victory. This fact that they even feel the need to issue a statement like this illustrates that the battle was "won" but at tremendous cost. The church will be paying for this for a long time, IMO.

This is smart thinking.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by Archaea

I don't know what was won and what was lost.

The definition of marriage is preserved in California. Okay.

What did the Church lose? Favor with gays? Did it ever have any favor with gays? So, can it lose something it never had?

It invested political capital, and preserved some capital by winning. Had it lost, that would have mattered, because then it would have lost political capital and not won what it sought out to win.

Come on. Lots of straight people aren't happy with this.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

Come on. Lots of straight people aren't happy with this.

Were they people we had any favor with?

[OrangeUte]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Were they people we had any favor with?

the church had favor with me, some of which is lost because of this incident.

[BarbaraGordon]

Originally Posted by FMCoug

Is the Law of Chastity bigoted? Does that mean we hate heteros who have pre-marital sex?

But no one's suggesting that we create legal measures against hetero fornication, or that we end common law marriage.

[FMCoug]

Originally Posted by bluegoose

It loses those gay members of the church who wish to remain a part of the church, but don't feel like they have a place.

Do they? Homosexuality is SUCH a problematic issue and my heart goes out to those who have to deal with it either personally or in their family. I have several gay friends who are LDS or former LDS and I really have no answer for them.

But the bottom line is this. Homosexual relationships are NOT in concert with the gospel. They just aren't. That has been made clear over and over. Since the family is central to the plan of Salvation, how do you reconcile homosexuality. You can't.

So how exactly do you make a place for them in the Church? Love them, support them in their rightous endeavors, etc. absolutely. But the bottom line is that they are not going to feel a part of the church with family relationships being such a big part of it.

I really have no answer. It's one of the "god will sort it all out" things to me.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by OrangeUte

the church had favor with me, some of which is lost because of this incident.

I can see the calculus of the Church, even though I would not have made the same decision.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by bluegoose

It loses those gay members of the church who wish to remain a part of the church, but don't feel like they have a place.

Again, if I were gay, I'd be outta here, even without this action. And I'd advise friends and family the same. This Church does not have what gays need. It's not very singles friendly either, but that's another matter. Maybe this is a silent way of admitting that.

[OrangeUte]

Originally Posted by FMCoug

Do they? Homosexuality is SUCH a problematic issue and my heart goes out to those who have to deal with it either personally or in their family. I have several gay friends who are LDS or former LDS and I really have no answer for them.

But the bottom line is this. Homosexual relationships are NOT in concert with the gospel. They just aren't. That has been made clear over and over. Since the family is central to the plan of Salvation, how do you reconcile homosexuality. You can't.

So how exactly do you make a place for them in the Church? Love them, support them in their rightous endeavors, etc. absolutely. But the bottom line is that they are not going to feel a part of the church with family relationships being such a big part of it.

I really have no answer. It's one of the "god will sort it all out" things to me.

your error is that nobody is asking the church to make room for them at the church with prop 8 or similar measures. the church's spin included that prop 8 was a threat to religious freedoms. however, the proposition was about allowing or disallowing them to have the same civil rights as heterosexual people who can marry. it has nothing to do with the religious beliefs or organization's rights under the first amendment.