If Romeny runs in 2012...

[ERCougar]

Originally Posted by Tex

I did read the whole post. Your disclaimer doesn't nullify a really stupid question.

Really? Because I was pretty clear in saying that the hypothetical included nothing about personal opinion, only about voting for someone because someone told you to.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by RockyBalboa

But conveniently you're not disturbed at the backlash and mean spirited reactions towards the church and those who were for Prop 8?

Remember. This is a Yes or No question.

Disturbed? Yes. Surprised? No.

When you get involved in politics at that level, things get ugly. Precisely one of the reasons I wish the church would stay out of politics.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by ERCougar

Really? Because I was pretty clear in saying that the hypothetical included nothing about personal opinion, only about voting for someone because someone told you to.

It's a stupid poll question, followed by your stupid question. No one I know votes for anything just because "someone told me to." Maybe there are some true robots out there, but I don't know them.

Most normal people think about the issues and make up their minds. Someone else's opinion--be it the Prophet or Colin Powell or Rush Limbaugh--may influence that process, but in the end, people vote their own way. That goes for Mormons too.

[RockyBalboa]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

Disturbed? Yes. Surprised? No.

When you get involved in politics at that level, things get ugly. Precisely one of the reasons I wish the church would stay out of politics.

I understand where you're coming from.

Mostly I agree when it comes to staying out of politics, but when it comes to a moral issue...and this is just my personal opinion, then I think The Church and it's members (regardless of which side the members are on) have the right to express themselves.

For the most part the church has stayed out of politics.

I've never heard a mandate from the First Presidency telling the members who or what they have to vote for.

[ERCougar]

Originally Posted by Tex

It's a stupid poll question, followed by your stupid question. No one I know votes for anything just because "someone told me to." Maybe there are some true robots out there, but I don't know them.

Most normal people think about the issues and make up their minds. Someone else's opinion--be it the Prophet or Colin Powell or Rush Limbaugh--may influence that process, but in the end, people vote their own way. That goes for Mormons too.

Then say that (the poll question is stupid). Instead, you call my characterization of the respondents stupid (without saying what you're really saying--the respondents aren't saying what they mean).

Why am I surprised at this? I'm not sure you've ever made an argument or answered a question directly.

[Solon]

Originally Posted by BarbaraGordon

Is Catholicism a cult?

Depends on the time period you're considering (and, obviously, whatever definition of 'cult' we're using)

Catholicism has a long history of peacefully and not-so-peacefully dealing with internal dissent through rational means (see: Berenger of Chartres, Dominic, Thomas Aquinas, Bernard de Clairvaux), as well as strong Popes who sought to exert influence over secular affairs (Gregory VII and Innocent III) - both issues that are being thrown around today in discussions of LDS leadership and authority.

It's only a matter of time before the LDS inquisition is formed.

[bluegoose]

Originally Posted by Tex

It's a stupid poll question, followed by your stupid question. No one I know votes for anything just because "someone told me to." Maybe there are some true robots out there, but I don't know them.

Most normal people think about the issues and make up their minds. Someone else's opinion--be it the Prophet or Colin Powell or Rush Limbaugh--may influence that process, but in the end, people vote their own way. That goes for Mormons too.

You don't live in California. You have no idea how many Californian Mormons voted for precisely that reason. This is not to say they wouldn't have voted that way anyway if the church had not made the statements that they did. But I've spoken with many, many people who voted for Prop 8 for no other reason than "The Prophet told me to".

[Tex]

Originally Posted by ERCougar

Then say that (the poll question is stupid). Instead, you call my characterization of the respondents stupid (without saying what you're really saying--the respondents aren't saying what they mean).

Your characterization of the respondents IS stupid, because you don't seem to recognize what a bad question it is, nor that that isn't what the respondents are saying. Sheesh, do I have to hand-feed you my answers?

I'm probably being needlessly harsh on you, ER, but I have no tolerance for the self-loathing, whiney, "How are we not a cult, again?"

[Goatnapper'96]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

The most disturbing thing for me was not the manner in which it was pushed from SLC, but the manner in which it was interpreted and discussed by the members. Look at the backlash against Steve Young and his wife, for example.

I got a bit peeved by some of the ecclesiastical pressure. I went off the first time I was drug into it and then decided to bite my toungue in the future because I believe loyalty is important. Now that it is over, it left a bad taste in my mouth. We were asked to donate to the cause and I was against it. Principally as a regulated company I feel it innappropriate to use universal service funds for politics and I am convinced that when regulators audit our books they are likely to feel likewise, regardless if they wear similar underwear. However, I was outvoted by my partners who feel strongly about heeding the call of obedience. Well we finally got the checks signed we called the Stake President back we were told "not to worry about it the Stake had already donated its quota." That only pissed me off more as I would like to think it was about principles more than just obedience. Once the SP had the GA happy he didn't seem to care a great deal about the root issue. I guess I don't blame him if he wanted to deal with issues like that he probably wouldn't be a spud farmer in the Snake River plains.

Regardless it is over....in time I figure my sisters in law will allow their kids to go near Uncle Goat but right now one better beware of the marginal apostate. It could be contagious.

[ERCougar]

Originally Posted by Tex

Your characterization of the respondents IS stupid, because you don't seem to recognize what a bad question it is, nor that that isn't what the respondents are saying. Sheesh, do I have to hand-feed you my answers?

I'm probably being needlessly harsh on you, ER, but I have no tolerance for the self-loathing, whiney, "How are we not a cult, again?"

Tex "hand feeding" answers...lol

Both bluegoose and Solon have addressed the reasons why sometimes I get the feeling that I belong to a cult. I'll refer you to their posts.