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VAX77 · 11-03-2005, 05:12 AM

I am new here to this board, but thought I would try to add some decent discussion. Recently, I have come across something Crowton said to a friend of mine. He said his biggest mistake at BYU was hiring Bronco. Mind you, Crow is friends with him, but he went on to say that Bronco caused a split with the team and underminded Crow's authority. I know that to be a fact. Bronco often "trumped" Crowton and had his defense do something totally different or against what GC wanted.

I know we are all past GC and everything, but I wanted to throw this out. Bronco is who he is, but he is not right all the time. I do feel like he was not doing the right thing by undermining the head coach. He was, in fact, acting like a head coac before being the head coach.

creekster · 11-03-2005, 05:25 AM

Do you hire people that are bright enough to replace you? or do you hire people that are never going to be able to fill your shoes so you won't be threatened? Crowton did the former and apparently Bronco didn't have the sense of loyalty Crowton expected.

OTOH, these ocmments also smack of Crowton trying to justify his failures. Crowton's teams were stinking it up before Bronco came aboard, n'est-ce pas?

MikeWaters · 11-03-2005, 05:34 AM

I like Crowton a lot more now that he is gone (I was a big critic before).

My impression is that he was sort of a mad-scientist, brilliant in some ways, an idiot in others. In some ways, too strategic to bother with all the mundane tactics of a day to day existence.

Your words about Bronco ring true, because we have heard rumblings for some time about the defense loving Bronco, but the offense not. Before Crowton got fired that is.

I also think that no one has ever gotten more credit for mediocre defenses than Bronco.

Bronco is a smart man. He was able to convince the important people that all the righteous ways were contained within him. In that way he strikes me as very political and very savvy.

If he is smart he will hire a DC, someone that he can blame and punish later.

ute4ever · 11-03-2005, 06:22 AM

I am still puzzled by how Bronco ended up at BYU in the first place, let alone as their head coach.

In his five years at New Mexico (98-02), his defenses gave up 30+ points 22 times; the Lobos had only one winning record, and on average they gave up 25.8 points per game.

In his two years at BYU (03-04), besides not listening to his boss, his defenses gave up 30+ points 8 times; the Cougars had all losing records, and on average they gave up 26.3 points per game.

Is it really any surprise that this season TCU dropped 51 on them, or that in their last two games the opponents broke their own school records in passing?

VAX77 · 11-03-2005, 03:23 PM

Preface:
I want BYU to be successful and as such, the team and the coach ave my support.

I have to say that I never really was a huge GC fan. My previous post was just an interesting bit of info that I learned and I do not think GC was blaming him, just probably realized that Bronco demanded too much autonomy from GC's way. Ironically enough, Bronco does not currently offer that same autonomy to his players. A great friend of mine in a players interview flat out told BM that he disagreed with his control and lack of autonomy. His argument was that he is a team player, is an RM, is an excellent student, is married, etc. He said that as a manager or executive, Bronco would be foolish to think that only his way would be sucessful and that he could do a better job at integrating everyones personalities into his concept of what it takes to be successful. This player, btw, is one I would trust with my life and I have more respect for him than anyone on that team. Some people may say that those who disagree with BM are obviously slackers, not hard working, etc. What a load of crap. It amazes me that Bronco has reached "legendary" status before really earning it in so many peoples eyes, even before being a head coach.

There are generally three types of players that love BM:
Those who have no business being on a D-1 field but due to "hard work", they start or play.
Those who need a strong authority figure and think Bronco was called by God to be the coach, don't get me started.
Those who just follow the hype and do not know any better.

There are those who disagree with him, but they deal with it in order to try to win. Some have transferred or left and those who have bashed these guys have no business doing so, they have no idea what is being said, etc.

With that all said.I want to reiterate that I support Bronco and the team because he is the coach of BYU and I want them to be successful.

SoCalCoug · 11-03-2005, 04:26 PM

Quote:

There are generally three types of players that love BM:
Those who have no business being on a D-1 field but due to "hard work", they start or play.
Those who need a strong authority figure and think Bronco was called by God to be the coach, don't get me started.
Those who just follow the hype and do not know any better.

Might I add one:

Those who are willing to buy into Bronco's vision/system, at the expense of their autonomy.

I have always thought that there are a lot of similarities to my firm's managing partner and Bronco.

We have a strict system and strict way of doing things at our firm. You might say that the boss is a control freak. He is very intense and passionate about the firm and the work. We have had attorneys leave because they don't completely buy into the system, and they want more autonomy.

But those of us who remain, who have bought into the system, know we are giving up some of our autonomy (i.e., educational requirements, client selection requirements, billing procedures), but we have decided that the benefits of working in the system far outweigh the benefits of going elsewhere.

Don't get me wrong about my boss - he's great to work for, fun, and goes overboard making work enjoyable. But to be happy here, you have to surrender a certain amount of your autonomy.

It works for us, too. We are the most successful family law firm in the county (perhaps the state) and are generally considered the best at what we do.

There will be good players who don't buy into Bronco's system. There are certain players who are not a good fit. That doesn't mean they're not good players or are malcontents.

Bronco's system and way of doing things has a familiar ring to me, and I think with time, it will show itself to be very successful. It's just not for everyone.

Archaea · 11-03-2005, 04:27 PM

many generals followed the Bronco method.

I understand an intelligent player wanting to have a say, and if one knows how to integrate the ideas of others it can work. OTH, I can a management philosophy of not allowing questions so that the troops in general follow the game plan.

HuskyFreeNorthwest · 11-05-2005, 05:15 PM

This is not intended as a flame at VCX, and I think my record of posting indicates that I am not an insider and do not try to pretend that I am one, rather that I am just an average idiot who likes to yap. However some on here know that I have gotten to know Gary quite well since he moved to Eugene. My family has become pretty good friends with his. He has more than open with me about anything I have ask him in regards to BYU. He has never indicated any ill will towards Bronco, or any desire to see anything but success for Bronco at BYU.
Just my thoughts.

11-03-2005, 05:12 AM	#1
VAX77 Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Chicago Posts: 106	Crowton-interesting I am new here to this board, but thought I would try to add some decent discussion. Recently, I have come across something Crowton said to a friend of mine. He said his biggest mistake at BYU was hiring Bronco. Mind you, Crow is friends with him, but he went on to say that Bronco caused a split with the team and underminded Crow's authority. I know that to be a fact. Bronco often "trumped" Crowton and had his defense do something totally different or against what GC wanted. I know we are all past GC and everything, but I wanted to throw this out. Bronco is who he is, but he is not right all the time. I do feel like he was not doing the right thing by undermining the head coach. He was, in fact, acting like a head coac before being the head coach.

11-03-2005, 05:25 AM	#2
creekster Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: the far corner of my mind Posts: 8,711	Isn't that an age old management problem? Do you hire people that are bright enough to replace you? or do you hire people that are never going to be able to fill your shoes so you won't be threatened? Crowton did the former and apparently Bronco didn't have the sense of loyalty Crowton expected. OTOH, these ocmments also smack of Crowton trying to justify his failures. Crowton's teams were stinking it up before Bronco came aboard, n'est-ce pas?

11-03-2005, 03:23 PM	#5
VAX77 Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Chicago Posts: 106	crowton/bronco Preface: I want BYU to be successful and as such, the team and the coach ave my support. I have to say that I never really was a huge GC fan. My previous post was just an interesting bit of info that I learned and I do not think GC was blaming him, just probably realized that Bronco demanded too much autonomy from GC's way. Ironically enough, Bronco does not currently offer that same autonomy to his players. A great friend of mine in a players interview flat out told BM that he disagreed with his control and lack of autonomy. His argument was that he is a team player, is an RM, is an excellent student, is married, etc. He said that as a manager or executive, Bronco would be foolish to think that only his way would be sucessful and that he could do a better job at integrating everyones personalities into his concept of what it takes to be successful. This player, btw, is one I would trust with my life and I have more respect for him than anyone on that team. Some people may say that those who disagree with BM are obviously slackers, not hard working, etc. What a load of crap. It amazes me that Bronco has reached "legendary" status before really earning it in so many peoples eyes, even before being a head coach. There are generally three types of players that love BM: Those who have no business being on a D-1 field but due to "hard work", they start or play. Those who need a strong authority figure and think Bronco was called by God to be the coach, don't get me started. Those who just follow the hype and do not know any better. There are those who disagree with him, but they deal with it in order to try to win. Some have transferred or left and those who have bashed these guys have no business doing so, they have no idea what is being said, etc. With that all said.I want to reiterate that I support Bronco and the team because he is the coach of BYU and I want them to be successful.

11-03-2005, 04:27 PM	#7
Archaea Assistant to the Regional Manager Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The Orgasmatron Posts: 24,338	Strong personalities will clash. many generals followed the Bronco method. I understand an intelligent player wanting to have a say, and if one knows how to integrate the ideas of others it can work. OTH, I can a management philosophy of not allowing questions so that the troops in general follow the game plan. __________________ Ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα

11-05-2005, 05:15 PM	#8
HuskyFreeNorthwest Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Eugene, OR Posts: 280	Thoughts This is not intended as a flame at VCX, and I think my record of posting indicates that I am not an insider and do not try to pretend that I am one, rather that I am just an average idiot who likes to yap. However some on here know that I have gotten to know Gary quite well since he moved to Eugene. My family has become pretty good friends with his. He has more than open with me about anything I have ask him in regards to BYU. He has never indicated any ill will towards Bronco, or any desire to see anything but success for Bronco at BYU. Just my thoughts.

11-03-2005, 05:34 AM	#3
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	I like Crowton a lot more now that he is gone (I was a big critic before). My impression is that he was sort of a mad-scientist, brilliant in some ways, an idiot in others. In some ways, too strategic to bother with all the mundane tactics of a day to day existence. Your words about Bronco ring true, because we have heard rumblings for some time about the defense loving Bronco, but the offense not. Before Crowton got fired that is. I also think that no one has ever gotten more credit for mediocre defenses than Bronco. Bronco is a smart man. He was able to convince the important people that all the righteous ways were contained within him. In that way he strikes me as very political and very savvy. If he is smart he will hire a DC, someone that he can blame and punish later.

11-03-2005, 06:22 AM	#4
ute4ever I must not tell lies Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 5,103	I am still puzzled by how Bronco ended up at BYU in the first place, let alone as their head coach. In his five years at New Mexico (98-02), his defenses gave up 30+ points 22 times; the Lobos had only one winning record, and on average they gave up 25.8 points per game. In his two years at BYU (03-04), besides not listening to his boss, his defenses gave up 30+ points 8 times; the Cougars had all losing records, and on average they gave up 26.3 points per game. Is it really any surprise that this season TCU dropped 51 on them, or that in their last two games the opponents broke their own school records in passing?