I am still shocked at the AIDS numbers I see

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by UtahDan

What is interesting to me is that the same people to whom it seems obvious that we can't be getting into adventures around the world where we can't control the outcome (and additionally think it imperialist, immoral, jingositic and arrogant for us to do so) also want very much for us to cure all of Africa's ills from aids to the genocide occurring in Darfur. Darfur that is in the middle of a sectarian (or close enough) civil war (or close enough) that will ultimately make additional bloodshed unvoidable because they just don't want to live together peacefully or share power. Darfur that is run not by the Sudanese government, but by the Janjaweed (a militia). Darfur that poses no threat to us and has never attacked us. Starting to sound familiar?

I think that as between those who hypocritcally say we have no business in Iraq but should intercede in the Sudan and those who cycnically say that we have interests at stake in Iraq and nothing at stake in the Sudan I probably give more credit to the latter because at least there is a cogent thought process behind it.

It is a complex issue which you are intentionally oversimplifying to make a point. Curing AIDS and replacing regimes are not the same thing and cannot fairly be compared.

As for comparing the Sudan to Iraq, those are also two different issues. If the end result is to maximize human rights in the area, engaging in Sudan is clear, to me. It doesn't require toppling a government, replacing it with a puppet government, and won't destabilize the region, thereby emperiling more people. In fact, it could bring more stability to the region.

In Afghanistan, we were attacked, and our need to preserve our own security demanded a response.

In Iraq, our security did not demand an invasion, and later Bush (and many others, like yourself if I recall correctly), then tried to make it sound like a humanitarian issue. No question Sadaam was brutal, but you also have to calculate the costs to Iraqis of removing Sadaam. As we have discussed before, I think the clear outcome was instability in the region which is now heading towards full blown civil war (and millions of deaths, along with more contempt for the US). There are a lot of factors at play in each decision.