01-15-2008, 08:08 PM | #31 | |
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I would agree, for example, that Adam-God would be tough. It doesn't really get any better than saying "we don't know." On the other hand, how hard would it be to say that Joseph practiced polygamy in secret. We don't know why it was in secret, but ultimately he revealed it to others and it was practiced openly. There I just inoculated 95% of the class. Or how about saying while it was long believed that Joseph translated the Pearl of Great Price from ancient records, we now know that these we in fact Egyptian funerary scrolls. We don't know whether Joseph believed he was translating or whether this was just a tool to receive revelation, but we do know that revelation can come in many forms and regardless of the method we can seek a witness from the Holy Ghost as to whether the things taught in this book are true. Inoculated. I could go on and on. This doesn't have to take over the class. It can just be candid approaches in the manual to some uncomfortable subjects as they arise, being clear about what we know, what we don't and what we can learn from it. The gloss I just put on two big problem areas above would be more than satisfactory to most people, and no one could any longer say they felt as though it was covered up. This is just like anything else. Either we get out front and characterize these things, or the only characterizations available will be from the mouths of our enemies.
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The Bible tells us how to go to heaven, not how the heavens go. -Galileo Last edited by UtahDan; 01-15-2008 at 08:14 PM. |
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01-15-2008, 08:25 PM | #32 | |
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Let's look at the landscape. The Church provides "uplifting" yet "sanitized" historical reports and doctrinal explanations. Members are discouraged from participating in small groups religious study. I remember a First Presidency letter to that effect. Many interesting but difficult facts exist for which the sanitized version of events do not account. So if members are not to discuss or study these things in small groups, and if we are not supposed to discuss these things, what are we supposed to do, close our minds and pretend they don't exist because Big Brother Bureaucracy will take care of you? We're painting ourselves into an untenable position. There must be reasonable outlets for ordinary members to explore these questions. We can let the anti's do it, or we can do it ourselves.
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01-15-2008, 08:35 PM | #33 | ||||
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The 3-hour block is intended to be for theological-based building of testimonies and faith. Tell me how a discussion on the controversy surrounding Adam-God, on the history of Joseph's polygamous relationships, on modern Egyptology's analysis of the Abraham papyri, on the varied and confusing contrasts between the First Vision accounts helps me: - Be filled with love toward God and man - Become a better parent to my children - Gain a deeper understanding of the atonement, and its personal implications for me - Offer more meaningful prayers - Reach out more effectively to the poor, needy, sick, and afflicted - Discern the Spirit more easily These are the things the gospel is made of, not the details you're talking about. These are the things that convert, and retain conversion. These are the doctrines that form the rock the proverbial wise man builds upon. This is what inoculates. The other is more liable to raise questions than "inoculate" against them. If someone wants them raised, like Dan's friend, then raise them in a different forum. The Sunday meetings we attend each week are not that forum. Quote:
Your hubris comment is uncalled for.
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01-15-2008, 09:12 PM | #34 | |
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Certainly I see that point that worship centers around inviting the spirit and feeling uplifted. But do you really believe that what I am suggesting here excludes that possibility?
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01-15-2008, 10:24 PM | #35 | |
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Appropriate historical background is perfectly fine, but I really don't see a need to ever introduce as a part of curriculum, from the pulpit or teacher's lecturn, the 3 different versions of the First Vision. I'm frankly amazed that you think doing so "prevents harm." The substance of the issue aside, have you not read the plethora of posts on CG complaining about the lack of preparation and poor teaching skills of many class teachers? Have you ever been in a church class where the discussion gets irretrievably sidetracked by a completely irrelevant doctrinal topic? Even if the church did adopt the approach you're talking about, I'm not sure a lay membership is up to the challenge. And let me emphasize: I'm not advocating a moratorium on all discussion. Just not during the 3-hour block.
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01-16-2008, 01:15 AM | #36 |
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If factual history is unimportant, with respect to spiritual and uplifting doctrinal discussions, why do they teach church history in Sunday School? Why do we spend so much time on the storyline in the Book of Mormon and the New Testament?
Because the factual background is relevant to the context of the spiritual teachings. If facts are relevant to the context of the teachings, why isn't it important to get the facts right?
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01-16-2008, 01:17 AM | #37 | |
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Basically, what Tex seems to be saying is that the facts don't matter, just that people walk away feeling good. We can make up the facts as we go along. If the members feel good and like the story, it doesn't matter because it promotes faith.
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01-16-2008, 01:53 AM | #38 |
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Tex: "Appropriate historical background is fine."
SoCalCoug: WHAT?? You don't want the facts??? You don't want the background?? Archaea: Yeah! Yeah! Facts don't matter to Tex! Nice demagoguery, boys. Two thumbs up.
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"Have we been commanded not to call a prophet an insular racist? Link?" "And yes, [2010] is a very good year to be a Democrat. Perhaps the best year in decades ..." - Cali Coug "Oh dear, granny, what a long tail our puss has got." - Brigham Young |
01-16-2008, 02:04 AM | #39 | |
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Tex: It is not a bad thing, but it shouldn't be in SS. Several: Then where should it be? Tex: Look, it isn't a bad thing, but not in SS. Several: then where? Tex: Don't be a demagogue.
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01-16-2008, 02:19 AM | #40 | ||
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"Have we been commanded not to call a prophet an insular racist? Link?" "And yes, [2010] is a very good year to be a Democrat. Perhaps the best year in decades ..." - Cali Coug "Oh dear, granny, what a long tail our puss has got." - Brigham Young Last edited by Tex; 01-16-2008 at 02:22 AM. |
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