Of Doctrine and Stationarity

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by pelagius

I apologize then. I misread your intent.

What did you think I was saying?

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

My oh my. That is a fascinating letter. I found this part near the end to be interesting:



It seems like overkill. Almost like he is toying with him. Or mocking him.

The more I discover about BRM, the more I understand my wife's grandmother, a cousin of BRM's who was inactive later in life and hated BRM's guts.

[jay santos]

P.S. Where did he get the 2.5B years figure? That was random.

I liked all the doctrine McConkie gave in this letter, but the approach was typical for him.

[fusnik11]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Regardless, his letter to Eugene England is an excellent one.

Dude, now I know you are just shitting around here.

Break down the content of the letter Indy, he basically says this:

a. BY taught false doctrine
b. BY was allowed to lead people spiritually astray
c. BRM, not Jesus, is extending his generous hand
d. BRM's words are more important than God's
e. A leader is to be followed into error

How could you think his letter was excellent in any way shape or form?

[Archaea]

[quote=Indy Coug;80166]

Originally Posted by SoCalCoug

Regardless, his letter to Eugene England is an excellent one.

Why?

I don't uniformly throw out everything BRM published but I usually question it. That letter seems to overstep what we know about things.

[Tex]

An interesting quote from the McConkie letter:

This puts me in mind of Paul's statement: "There must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you." (1 Cor. 11:19) I do not know all of the providences of the Lord, but I do know that he permits false doctrine to be taught in and out of the Church and that such teaching is part of the sifting process of mortality.

Very interesting indeed, especially in light of recent discussions.

[fusnik11]

Originally Posted by Tex

An interesting quote from the McConkie letter:



Very interesting indeed, especially in light of recent discussions.

BRM said that Brigham Young mislead and taught false doctrine and basically said was lead by the devil.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by fusnik11

BRM said that Brigham Young mislead and taught false doctrine and basically said was lead by the devil.

Mmmm, not sure that's what I get out of it, but people can judge for themselves.

I repeat: Brigham Young erred in some of his statements on the nature and kind of being that God is and as to the position of Adam in the plan of salvation, but Brigham Young also taught the truth in these fields on other occasions. And I repeat, that in his instance, he was a great prophet and has gone on to eternal reward. What he did is not a pattern for any of us. If we choose to believe and teach the false portions of his doctrines, we are making an election that will damn us.

It should be perfectly evident that under our system of church discipline, it would be anticipated that some others besides Brigham Young would pick up some of his statements and echo them. Those who did this, also on other occasions, taught accurately and properly what the true doctrines of the gospel are. I do not get concerned when a good and sound person who, on the overall, is teaching the truth, happens to err on a particular point and say something in conflict with what he has said himself on a previous occasion. We are all mortal. We are all fallible. We all make mistakes. No single individual all the time is in tune with the Holy Spirit, but I do get concerned when some person or group picks out false statements and makes them the basis of their presentation and theology and thus ends up having a false concept of the doctrine, which in reality, was not in the mind of the person whose quotations they are using.

[fusnik11]

Originally Posted by Tex

Mmmm, not sure that's what I get out of it, but people can judge for themselves.

I'd like your comments on these passages from your boy BRM:

Originally Posted by BRM

'There are those who say that God is progressing in knowledge and is learning new truths.

This is false -- utterly, totally, and completely. There is not one sliver of truth in it. It grows out of a wholly twisted and incorrect view of the King Follet Sermon and of what is meant by eternal progression.'


'In that same devotional speech I said: "There are those
who believe or say they believe that Adam is our father and our God, that he is the father of our spirits and our bodies, and that his is the one we worship." I, of course, indicated the utter absurdity of this doctrine and said it was totally false.'


'And there are even those who champion the almost unbelievable theory that God is an Eternal student enrolled in the University of the Universe where he is busily engaged in learning new truths and amassing new and strange knowledge that he never knew before.

How belittling it is -- it borders on blasphemy -- to demean the Lord God Omnipotent by saying he is an idol, or image, or an animal, or a spirit essence, or that he is ever learning but never able to come to a knowledge of all truth.'


'Yes, President Young did teach that Adam was the father of our spirits, and all the related things that the cultists ascribe to him. This, however, is not true. He expressed views that are out of harmony with the gospel. But, be it known, Brigham Young also taught accurately and correctly, the status and position of Adam in the eternal scheme of things. What I am saying is, that Brigham Young contradicted Brigham Young, and the issue becomes one of which Brigham Young we will believe. The answer is we will believe the expressions that accord with the teachings in the Standard Works.

Yes, Brigham Young did say some things about God progressing in knowledge and understanding, but again, be it known, that Brigham Young taught emphatically and plainly, that God knows all things and has all power meaning in the infinite, eternal and ultimate and absolute sense of the word. Again, the issue is, which Brigham Young shall we believe and the answer is: We will take the one whose statements accord with what God has revealed in the Standard Works.'

[All-American]

An interesting letter, to say the least. It is an uncharacteristically open expression from BRM, though very typically heavy handed, as he is unfortunately wont to be at times. It is not often that you will see a member of the Twelve frankly discuss erroneous teachings of past church leaders in such a way.