07-18-2006, 05:40 PM | #41 | |
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07-18-2006, 06:00 PM | #42 | |
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07-18-2006, 06:58 PM | #43 |
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Interesting discussion.
The discussion point that doesn't make a lot of sense is the question of authority. It's either a valid point, or there is no authority and the Church isn't valid. When you started to question if the Priesthood isn't more than kindness, it sounds as if there is no basis for any truth. With that line of thinking, there is no truth. Faith is a manifold item, blending concepts, whirliing around space, perhaps all in one and one for all. It is dynamic, not static. You either feed it or it diminishes. As a side note, people say you can intellect your way out of the Church or emote your way out. It seems there is at least a third way; if something so emotionally devastating occurs that one no longer cares what happens. I imagine this is actually a more common way than is believed.
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07-18-2006, 07:11 PM | #44 | |||
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If we are talking about belief in general, or approaches to life and spiritual experience, I think our roles are pretty much the opposite, and you become the man of 'reason,' and I am more the 'mystic.' Anyhow, you are welcome to characterize our approaches in any way you find personally usefull. |
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07-18-2006, 07:21 PM | #45 | |
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As for Yale leading to financial ruin, I will simply quote President Bush in his response to Putin's criticism of democracy in Iraq, "Just wait." |
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07-18-2006, 08:08 PM | #46 | |
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Interestingly enough priesthood is the power to act in the stead of God, to bind on earth and in heaven, are love and compassion not the real ways to 'act in the stead of God?' Is love not what binds us eternally? Love is what the Holy Spirit of Promise is, it's the eternal and universal force that drives the world. I remember thinking on my mission that the power of the priesthood was the power to change molecules, to commission sickness to dissipate, to command the angels, in reality, it's the commission to love unceasingly and eternally those we know, and those we do not know. Lest we forget, it is not tokens, nor signs, that garner us entrance into the presence of God, it's unceasing love and devotion to ourselves and our families. This in no way dissipates or lessens the dogma of the LDS church, I think the doctrine found in canon and in the words of our prophets current and of years gone by speak the language of God. |
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07-18-2006, 08:15 PM | #47 | |
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07-18-2006, 08:30 PM | #48 | |
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07-18-2006, 08:32 PM | #49 | |
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The exercise of authority must be one of love, compassion and kindness, but the exercise must receive permission. Otherwise, anybody could say, hey, I'm being kind, hence I'm exercising priesthood authority. This is where Derrida is correct. I don't know if I'm interpreting you correctly. Because your markers have meaning attached to other conversations with people arguing similar, but not identical ideas. Yes we evolve within the Gospel and thus see it from other perspectives. However, you are missing the link. God must give permission. Otherwise all there is are kind acts. In the OT, one could not kindly sacrifice a goat on a altar made by one's own hands; one had to go to the priest, Levite that was, and have the priest offer it up. Now, whether one received expiation of sin, depended upon one's heart and how one dealt with neighbors, but proper authorization IS necessary and it does NOT boil down simply to kindness. It requires proper Permission and Kindness.
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07-18-2006, 08:33 PM | #50 | |
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... by what authority did Alma (sr.) baptize? Mosiah 18:12 seems to suggest that his authority came from his desire and from his asking, "O Lord, pour out thy Spirit upon thy servant, that he may do this work with holiness of heart. And when he had said these words, the Spirit of the Lord was upon him, and he said: Helam, I baptize thee, having authority from the Almighty God, as a testimony that ye have entered into a covenant to serve him until you are dead as to the mortal body." Alma then goes on to baptize HIMSELF, along with Helam. I have heard different tortured explanations for this, but the most simple explanation is this -- Alma asked for the authority and he got it... no laying on of hands needed. |
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