On Being a Mormon Historian - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

Sleeping in EQ · 08-21-2006, 07:56 PM

In the 25 years since Quinn's speech, researching and publishing Mormon history has moved a little in the direction of his position and away from the views of those he critiques. I'm sure it's not where he'd like it to be (and it could always swing back the other way again), but books that would've brought down Church discipline back then are often tolerated and even given tacit approbation today.

I wonder if those working on the Joseph Smith Papers Project are hustling to finish before President Hinckley dies. President Hinckley has been fairly moderate on Mormon hisory research and is very much in favor of the project. In this regard he is much more moderate than some of the other apostles. I've heard rumors...

The link is to Quinn's classic speech at BYU in 1981. If you haven't read it before, it's well worth your time.

http://www.xmission.com/~country/reason/mormhist.htm

Jeff Lebowski · 08-21-2006, 08:46 PM

Excellent article. Thanks for the link.

Another point on this topic is that the internet has changed everything. Anyone who thinks the church can/should "hide" any part of its history is delusional. Quinn's speech is even more valid today.

MikeWaters · 08-21-2006, 08:55 PM

I wonder what Quinn thinks, sleeping on the floor in his Mom's house, no insurance, no job, no university willing to hire him for fear of drawing ire from LDS institutions/forces/members.

Cali Coug · 08-21-2006, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I wonder what Quinn thinks, sleeping on the floor in his Mom's house, no insurance, no job, no university willing to hire him for fear of drawing ire from LDS institutions/forces/members.

It is absurd. He is one of the best Mormon historians alive. While what he says may, at times, be controversial, he documents his claims very well.

Jeff Lebowski · 08-21-2006, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I wonder what Quinn thinks, sleeping on the floor in his Mom's house, no insurance, no job, no university willing to hire him for fear of drawing ire from LDS institutions/forces/members.

That's a real shame.

MikeWaters · 08-21-2006, 09:10 PM

I think the article was in the LA Times a few months ago. How Quinn has been considered, but ultimately turned down for all the jobs he has applied.

Because when a university wants a "Mormon history person" they generally want someone that is attractive to Mormon donors. They don't want someone that may be perceived as antagonistic towards LDS.

I've never read Quinn, but it is a real shame that there is no place he can hang his head. Some will say just desserts, but I'm not one of them.

Jeff Lebowski · 08-21-2006, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I think the article was in the LA Times a few months ago. How Quinn has been considered, but ultimately turned down for all the jobs he has applied.

Because when a university wants a "Mormon history person" they generally want someone that is attractive to Mormon donors. They don't want someone that may be perceived as antagonistic towards LDS.

I've never read Quinn, but it is a real shame that there is no place he can hang his head. Some will say just desserts, but I'm not one of them.

Yes, I remember the article well. He deserves much better than this.

If I only had FMCoug-style money.....

All-American · 08-21-2006, 09:27 PM

Interesting article. I had read several of the articles that he cited as well.

It's an interesting dilemma, to be certain. The line that captures it best, in my opinion, is the quote by President Packer. The intention is to highlight not the fact that the prophet is a man, as we already know, but that the man is a prophet. For the most part, Mormons are pretty hypersensitive with regards to criticisms of its history. Someday, they might realize that their history is their strongest ally.

jay santos · 08-21-2006, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I think the article was in the LA Times a few months ago. How Quinn has been considered, but ultimately turned down for all the jobs he has applied.

Because when a university wants a "Mormon history person" they generally want someone that is attractive to Mormon donors. They don't want someone that may be perceived as antagonistic towards LDS.

I've never read Quinn, but it is a real shame that there is no place he can hang his head. Some will say just desserts, but I'm not one of them.

Oh yeah right. We can't even get our football games shown on Dish Network yet we have power over the entire academia network that we can blacklist a brilliant historian we don't like.

Archaea · 08-21-2006, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I think the article was in the LA Times a few months ago. How Quinn has been considered, but ultimately turned down for all the jobs he has applied.

Because when a university wants a "Mormon history person" they generally want someone that is attractive to Mormon donors. They don't want someone that may be perceived as antagonistic towards LDS.

I've never read Quinn, but it is a real shame that there is no place he can hang his head. Some will say just desserts, but I'm not one of them.

People either underrate or overrate, as some of his stuff is NOT well-documented. Not wanting to incite a riot, his stuff of gayness in the 1800s was poorly documented and researched.

Some of his stuff is adequate, but if you were a Mormon donor, would underwrite somebody has fallen away, and therefore might be inclined with your money to undermine the tenets of your faith, consciously or subconsciously.

Ira Fulton has the right to attach strings if he wishes, and I would do so as well.

Do you believe Harvard would appoint a Hezbollah terroist as head of its Jewish studies department, even in the unlikely event, he were well-educated and had published on the matter?

Now I'm not accusing Quinn with a terroist, but he no longer is a member and is seen as antithetical to the Church.

08-21-2006, 07:56 PM	#1
Sleeping in EQ Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: The People's Republic of Monsanto Posts: 3,085	On Being a Mormon Historian In the 25 years since Quinn's speech, researching and publishing Mormon history has moved a little in the direction of his position and away from the views of those he critiques. I'm sure it's not where he'd like it to be (and it could always swing back the other way again), but books that would've brought down Church discipline back then are often tolerated and even given tacit approbation today. I wonder if those working on the Joseph Smith Papers Project are hustling to finish before President Hinckley dies. President Hinckley has been fairly moderate on Mormon hisory research and is very much in favor of the project. In this regard he is much more moderate than some of the other apostles. I've heard rumors... The link is to Quinn's classic speech at BYU in 1981. If you haven't read it before, it's well worth your time. http://www.xmission.com/~country/reason/mormhist.htm __________________ "Do not despise the words of prophets, but test everything; hold fast to what is good; " 1 Thess. 5:21 (NRSV) We all trust our own unorthodoxies.

08-21-2006, 08:46 PM	#2
Jeff Lebowski Charon Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In the heart of darkness (Provo) Posts: 9,564	Excellent article. Thanks for the link. Another point on this topic is that the internet has changed everything. Anyone who thinks the church can/should "hide" any part of its history is delusional. Quinn's speech is even more valid today. __________________ "... the arc of the universe is long but it bends toward justice." Martin Luther King, Jr.

08-21-2006, 09:27 PM	#8
All-American Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3,420	Interesting article. I had read several of the articles that he cited as well. It's an interesting dilemma, to be certain. The line that captures it best, in my opinion, is the quote by President Packer. The intention is to highlight not the fact that the prophet is a man, as we already know, but that the man is a prophet. For the most part, Mormons are pretty hypersensitive with regards to criticisms of its history. Someday, they might realize that their history is their strongest ally. __________________ εν αρχη ην ο λογος

08-21-2006, 08:55 PM	#3
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	I wonder what Quinn thinks, sleeping on the floor in his Mom's house, no insurance, no job, no university willing to hire him for fear of drawing ire from LDS institutions/forces/members.

08-21-2006, 09:10 PM	#6
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	I think the article was in the LA Times a few months ago. How Quinn has been considered, but ultimately turned down for all the jobs he has applied. Because when a university wants a "Mormon history person" they generally want someone that is attractive to Mormon donors. They don't want someone that may be perceived as antagonistic towards LDS. I've never read Quinn, but it is a real shame that there is no place he can hang his head. Some will say just desserts, but I'm not one of them.