Thought the PBS Doc was very good

[Chapel-Hill-Coug]

Some of the poetry about the redness of Utah's terrain conditioning a violent culture I thought was a little weird, but all in all I was impressed.

There was a fair representation of faithful Mormon scholars like Bushman, Givens, Madsen, and Flake, the only ones I can think of right now. I'm sure there were more.

Though there will inevitably be complaints about the fairness of this show by members, I wonder how it could have gotten any fairer. The presentation on the MMM, for example, showed very different takes on the level of BY's involvement by historians who have studied it for years. MMM is what it is, and unless you'd prefer that scholars ignore the whole thing, which they can't and shouldn't do, then the best you can hope for is a very fair treatment of it. That is what this show offered.

And for polygamy, the show barely even touched on the uglier aspects of polygamy. It didn't even mention the several young women (younger than 18) that Smith was involved with. The youngest woman mentioned was, I believe, 19 years old.

Frankly, I was surprised at how balanced it was.

[MikeWaters]

Many of the people on this site come from the perspective of at least having heard of the "wart-ier" aspects of Mormon history. For those that have not heard of these things, I can see how they would be offended.

Mormons are familiar with the legends of the church, but less informed about the history.

The poet guy with the beard, I think I have actually been to a reading of his. I enjoyed the fact that they used a poet.

[Chapel-Hill-Coug]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Many of the people on this site come from the perspective of at least having heard of the "wart-ier" aspects of Mormon history. For those that have not heard of these things, I can see how they would be offended.

Mormons are familiar with the legends of the church, but less informed about the history.

The poet guy with the beard, I think I have actually been to a reading of his. I enjoyed the fact that they used a poet.

What I'm referring to is the flowery language of the woman who equated the redness of Utah's terrain with the fire of violence and fundamentalism, as if the one led to the other. At least that's how I interpreted what she said.

[Sleeping in EQ]

I thought it was very good and fair. It could have been much more provocative on some points, but steered clear of those. To mention a few: There was no discussion of the Masonic influence, or J.S. using the Masonic distress call at Carthage. The Danites, Council of Fifty, and Rigdon's inflammatory Salt Sermon could have been in there. Authorized Post-Manifesto Polygamy was stepped around. It probably was something of an historical innoculation for some Church members, though, and more than a few may be coming down with a fever.

Some of my colleagues said they would watch it and I look forward to discussing it with them.

[Black Diamond Bay]

Originally Posted by Sleeping in EQ

I thought it was very good and fair. It could have been much more provocative on some points, but steered clear of those. To mention a few: There was no discussion of the Masonic influence, or J.S. using the Masonic distress call at Carthage. The Danites, Council of Fifty, and Rigdon's inflammatory Salt Sermon could have been in there. Authorized Post-Manifesto Polygamy was stepped around. It probably was something of an historical innoculation for some Church members, though, and more than a few may be coming down with a fever.

Some of my colleagues said they would watch it and I look forward to discussing it with them.

I noticed that they skipped the masons and also the post-manifesto polygamy as well. I actually thought that was very interesting. I wonder if it was just because of time constraints. I actually really wanted to hear about what they'd dug up about the masons.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by Chapel-Hill-Coug

Some of the poetry about the redness of Utah's terrain conditioning a violent culture I thought was a little weird, but all in all I was impressed.

There was a fair representation of faithful Mormon scholars like Bushman, Givens, Madsen, and Flake, the only ones I can think of right now. I'm sure there were more.

Though there will inevitably be complaints about the fairness of this show by members, I wonder how it could have gotten any fairer. The presentation on the MMM, for example, showed very different takes on the level of BY's involvement by historians who have studied it for years. MMM is what it is, and unless you'd prefer that scholars ignore the whole thing, which they can't and shouldn't do, then the best you can hope for is a very fair treatment of it. That is what this show offered.

And for polygamy, the show barely even touched on the uglier aspects of polygamy. It didn't even mention the several young women (younger than 18) that Smith was involved with. The youngest woman mentioned was, I believe, 19 years old.

Frankly, I was surprised at how balanced it was.

I thought it was very well done. I agree- the red Utah bit was really weird. So was the whole tangent on dancing. It made it sound like you have to be a ballroom dancer before you are even considered for baptism.

I wondered if they would look at racial aspects of the early church.

[All-American]

They'll hit up racism and the temple tonight, no doubt.

[SoCalCoug]

Originally Posted by All-American

They'll hit up racism and the temple tonight, no doubt.

Probably, but after reading that David O. McKay biography, I don't know how to legitimately defend the claims of racism in the church in the 70's and prior except to say that the church leaders were products of their time.

The fact is, most of the church leaders at that time were, indeed, racist.

[All-American]

Originally Posted by SoCalCoug

Probably, but after reading that David O. McKay biography, I don't know how to legitimately defend the claims of racism in the church in the 70's and prior except to say that the church leaders were products of their time.

The fact is, most of the church leaders at that time were, indeed, racist.

I frankly wonder, as I look around to ensure that I am not touching anything that could conduct electricity, if the fact that Joseph Fielding Smith and Harold B. Lee had such short tenures at the head of the church, while David O. McKay and Spencer W. Kimball (surprisingly) had such lengthy tenures, has anything to do with their stances on blacks and the priesthood.

Not to speak evil of the Lord's annointed, mind you-- I simply wonder if there was a job to be done, and He was looking for the guy who was going to get it done.

[pelagius]

I really enjoyed it, and to a large degree I found it very moving. It reminded me of why I am a Mormon, and always want to be a Mormon. Our religion is beautiful and I thought that came through. Yes, its sometimes ugly as well, but somehow that all adds to the beauty for me. Our religion is so American, and yet at the same time its not. Its a product of the 19th century, but not really. Its grand, bold, and theologically audacious, and sometimes it is intellectually embarrassing. In short, we're beautiful and I thought that came through.