Question about the missionary program "raising the bar"

[Mormon Red Death]

Since they have raised the bar they are not allowing missionaries that have had premarital sex right?

Doesn't that seem counter to the doctrine of repentance? Anybody have any insight into the reasoning here?

[non sequitur]

Originally Posted by Mormon Red Death

Since they have raised the bar they are not allowing missionaries that have had premarital sex right?

Doesn't that seem counter to the doctrine of repentance? Anybody have any insight into the reasoning here?

I have a good friend whose son wanted to to serve a mission but was turned down because he had a "masturbation problem". I honestly laughed, because every 20 year old kid on the planet -- missionary or not -- has a "masturbation problem". If you get rid of kids just because they masturbate, who is going to be left to serve missions? That's an honest question.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by non sequitur

I have a good friend whose son wanted to to serve a mission but was turned down because he had a "masturbation problem". I honestly laughed, because every 20 year old kid on the planet -- missionary or not -- has a "masturbation problem". If you get rid of kids just because they masturbate, who is going to be left to serve missions? That's an honest question.

The liars.

Well, baptisms certainly aren't as good as back in the Kimball days.

The policy will hopefully be changed, because many, many guys served honorable missions, even if premarital sex had been experienced. I know several bishops from their youth, who may not have been active but for repentance and the opportunity to serve. And they would fit the category of sexual predator.

I guess some members advocating the new standard don't believe in the atonement, and Alma's son Coriantumr shouldn't have been allowed to serve after he visited the harlot.

[Mormon Red Death]

Originally Posted by non sequitur

I have a good friend whose son wanted to to serve a mission but was turned down because he had a "masturbation problem". I honestly laughed, because every 20 year old kid on the planet -- missionary or not -- has a "masturbation problem". If you get rid of kids just because they masturbate, who is going to be left to serve missions? That's an honest question.

I always wanted to say when they asked if I had a masturbation problem:

"Nope.. works everytime"

[BlueK]

Originally Posted by Mormon Red Death

Since they have raised the bar they are not allowing missionaries that have had premarital sex right?

Doesn't that seem counter to the doctrine of repentance? Anybody have any insight into the reasoning here?

I don't think that's exactly correct. I think they're excluding those who have had multiple problems with it, not just a one-time thing or one girlfriend. And I think it's not really a repentance/worthiness issue. I think it's that they want to encourage a life-long preparation process for a mission and discourage sending the live it up and party but then repent at the last minute missionaries. Maybe this will get me flamed, but most of the "problem" elders I knew were in the second group. Not to say you can't sincerely repent of that lifestyle and become a great missionary, but it's not an easy thing to do and I think many used to get rushed into the mission field not so much because they wanted to but because it was culturally expected of them.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by Mormon Red Death

Since they have raised the bar they are not allowing missionaries that have had premarital sex right?

Doesn't that seem counter to the doctrine of repentance? Anybody have any insight into the reasoning here?

It is not true that premarital sex precludes one from missionary service. I read the handbook on this but I've forgotten the exact words. The words are ambiguous enough to allow for different interpretation, but they're something like this:

a. sex with multiple partners (for the perverts I think this means seperate instances of 1:1 activity)
or
b. multiple frequency sex with one partner

The reasoning being that serving a mission is not necessary for salvation. It is a special work that is a service. You are called to the work--it's not a given for everyone. Missions are hard, and there are certain behaviors pre-mission that would be a predictor for being a bad missionary (not 100% but statistically valid predictor). The brethren are managing by the numbers. Something they're forced to do with such a large church.

That said, I don't like it. And I don't know if there's anything doctrinal about who is worthy to serve a mission, but it's inconsistent with scripture and historical accounts.

[Indy Coug]

In the absence of really knowing what the church policy actually is, why weigh in on whether you like it or not?

[non sequitur]

Originally Posted by BlueK

Maybe this will get me flamed, but most of the "problem" elders I knew were in the second group.

I know that in my mission, the "problem" elders were the ones doing all the baptizing. There is no correlation between righteousness and obedience to mission rules and the number of people that you are able to baptize. Missionary work is about salesmanship. If you have people skills you will baptize more people. Whether someone is a "problem" elder or not, seems to be completely irrelevant.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by non sequitur

I know that in my mission, the "problem" elders were the ones doing all the baptizing. There is no correlation between righteousness and obedience to mission rules and the number of people that you are able to baptize. Missionary work is about salesmanship. If you have people skills you will baptize more people. Whether someone is a "problem" elder or not, seems to be completely irrelevant.

In Germany, there were almost no baptisms regardless of salesmanship. One month, the entire mission baptized less than ten, I believe it was six. That was 150 elders and sisters in total. At the same time, I got a letter from my friend in Tokyo South, where he personally baptized 50 persons. Needless to say, I didn't exactly write him to say we hadn't baptized in seven months.

Whether it was linked to righteousness or not is for somebody else to judge, but our baptisms weren't about salesmanship. They were mana from heaven that nobody created or delivered. Suddenly, you find a rare German soul that was interested and nothing we did, could screw it up.

[BlueK]

In my mission no one baptized, so I can't even put that into the equation. But I'm sure you're right about people skills and baptisms in high baptizing areas. I'm talking about the elders that would keep the mission pres up at night because they were renting cars and driving all over Europe or going dancing and drinking at nightclubs. I think the policy change is more about having fewer elders for the mission pres to babysit so he can focus on the rest of his duties.