Reorganized LDS

[RockyBalboa]

Originally Posted by fusnik11

Shouldn't we worry about how we treat each other no matter how much we think we are right?

Absolutely we should and that's not my point and never has been.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by All-American

I don't know of what service I will ever be, but for better or worse, I'm not going anywhere.

Said Joseph Smith:

"If I had not actually got into this work and been called of God, I would back out. But I cannot back out: I have no doubt of the truth."

I enjoy your input and intellect, so thanks for the input.

[RockyBalboa]

I enjoy AA's posts and thoughts as well.

I just think the assertion that an entire cultural is to blame for someone making a personal choice to leave smacks from the lack of personal responsibility and belief.

How often do we go through life seeing people who always think that it's everyone else that's the problem and not them and fails to realize they are the one that needs to make a change?

I know I have many times where I've been in the wrong and had to humble myself, even when I didn't want to.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by RockyBalboa

I enjoy AA's posts and thoughts as well.

I just think the assertion that an entire cultural is to blame for someone making a personal choice to leave smacks from the lack of personal responsibility and belief.

How often do we go through life seeing people who always think that it's everyone else that's the problem and not them and fails to realize they are the one that needs to make a change?

I know I have many times where I've been in the wrong and had to humble myself, even when I didn't want to.

You might want to state your claim a little less harshly, because it appeared as if you were shouting at him.

I don't believe I understood his point very well, but then again I'm not immersed in LDS culture as it were. I attend, render service and immerse myself in my family and other culture. Thus I probably am not a good example of his complaint.

[RockyBalboa]

Originally Posted by Archaea

You might want to state your claim a little less harshly, because it appeared as if you were shouting at him.

I don't believe I understood his point very well, but then again I'm not immersed in LDS culture as it were. I attend, render service and immerse myself in my family and other culture. Thus I probably am not a good example of his complaint.

I wasn't shouting at him. Sometimes I am blunt and people don't like it.

[All-American]

Originally Posted by RockyBalboa

Quite frankly I won't lose any sleep worrying about your opinion of me.

Yep, your right it's all the Mormon's fault. Screw personal responsibility.

I stand by my statement.

You may have noticed that I said nothing regarding evading one's own personal responsibility. I'm not talking to people who have LEFT the church, or are considering LEAVING the church. They are responsible for their own choices and will reap the painful rewards of their actions.

I'm talking to the people who make it much harder for others to choose the right. I'm talking to those who "put a hedge about the law." To those who "bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers;" who "shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for they neither go in themselves, neither suffer they them that are entering to go in."

No man can neglect his own responsibilities and expect to avoid the consequences. At the same time, NO MAN has the right to make it more difficult for any person to enter into and stay within the kingdom of God. As members of the church, we ought to be supremely interested in making the road to heaven as easy as it can be made for our brethren. We ought to be actively engaged in lightening their load. Instead of shrugging of those who depart and considering them as chaff separated from the wheat, we ought to search them out and bring them home.

Instead of standing by your statements, why don't you stand by your brethren?

[All-American]

Originally Posted by RockyBalboa

I enjoy AA's posts and thoughts as well.

I just think the assertion that an entire cultural is to blame for someone making a personal choice to leave smacks from the lack of personal responsibility and belief.

How often do we go through life seeing people who always think that it's everyone else that's the problem and not them and fails to realize they are the one that needs to make a change?

I know I have many times where I've been in the wrong and had to humble myself, even when I didn't want to.

I'm not trying to relieve anybody of their responsibilities. I'm focusing on something else at the moment.

[RockyBalboa]

Originally Posted by All-American

You may have noticed that I said nothing regarding evading one's own personal responsibility. I'm not talking to people who have LEFT the church, or are considering LEAVING the church. They are responsible for their own choices and will reap the painful rewards of their actions.

I'm talking to the people who make it much harder for others to choose the right. I'm talking to those who "put a hedge about the law." To those who "bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers;" who "shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for they neither go in themselves, neither suffer they them that are entering to go in."

No man can neglect his own responsibilities and expect to avoid the consequences. At the same time, NO MAN has the right to make it more difficult for any person to enter into and stay within the kingdom of God. As members of the church, we ought to be supremely interested in making the road to heaven as easy as it can be made for our brethren. We ought to be actively engaged in lightening their load. Instead of shrugging of those who depart and considering them as chaff separated from the wheat, we ought to search them out and bring them home.

Instead of standing by your statements, why don't you stand by your brethren?

It is possible to stand by both.

I'm sorry you struggle with the culture of the church. I wish it were easier for you.

I've never disagreed with not lightening their load, but ultimately the blame lays with the person who gets offended and leaves.

Personally I deal with the peculiarities of the culture through humor, because there are a lot of dorks and weird people in the church, so I just see it is what it is and try not to take things too personally.

[Archaea]

You weren't blunt, you were rude and overstated your case.

The foregoing example is an example of bluntness.

Calling something lazy, carries with it loaded terminology and therefore makes a blunt point rudely.

His point is valid to an extent and I doubt he disagrees with personal responsibility. But if some artifacts in our culture drive away some people who would otherwise stay, that is tragic.

[fusnik11]

Originally Posted by Archaea

You weren't blunt, you were rude and overstated your case.

The foregoing example is an example of bluntness.

Calling something lazy, carries with it loaded terminology and therefore makes a blunt point rudely.

Maybe he was trying his hand at dark humor?