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Old 04-29-2009, 03:47 PM   #21
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I understand that message won't sell, but it doesn't make it less true.

So we have to come up with ideas that eventually don't work better than the Dems. That's fucked.
People hate govt. But they like roads. They like firefighters. They like having police. They like courts and jails. They like medical schools and public hospitals. They like public universities. They like universal education. They like having a military. They really don't see how this country could operate without laws and government.

The republicans have proven, definitively, that they cannot govern.
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Old 04-29-2009, 03:47 PM   #22
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What percentage of the Republican candidates were religious right types? You had McCain, Giuliani and Romney who weren't. Then you had Ron Paul. After that, every other guy was religious right (about a dozen of them), and Romney was trying to look like one as well. The only reason McCain got nominated is because the RR couldn't agree on anyone, and McCain was everyone's second choice. He was the nominee by default.
And yet, he was nominated. He even made a dent back in 2000. If the Republican tent were as small as Arlen Specter would have you believe, none of those guys would've made it past square one.

Successful politicians and/or political movements are not built on watering down your message for the purposes of mass appeal. They are built on persuading people who might otherwise disagree with you that your position is the right/best one.

The Republican tent doesn't need to be bigger--it's plenty big and there's room to spare. It needs to re-establish what it stands for, and convince more people to come inside.
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Old 04-29-2009, 03:48 PM   #23
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I guess you missed the part in 2004 where the entire party swooped in to save Spector from Pat Toomey, including President Bush himself, and very conservative former senator Rick Santorum. Or the part where they nominated a centrist as their candidate for president in 2008?
Those are the very examples being given by the conservative rank and file right now for "purifying" their party. Thank you for proving his point. The party that helped Specter in 2004 won lots of elections. This version of the party finds only 21% of Americans claiming they are affiliated with them.

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Old 04-29-2009, 03:49 PM   #24
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actually Obama has a lot of ideas. It's just that most conservatives don't agree with them.

GOP is short of ideas, esp. new ones.
Precisely.
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Old 04-29-2009, 03:50 PM   #25
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His ideas are not new and not ideas.

Spend. Spend. Spend. and when you're done spend some more.

After that tax the hell out of them.

Where's the idea Mike?

Spend to create a stimulus by using pork to get there.

Spend to create national health insurance.

I see no ideas just throwing money at everything.

Sorry- you only accept that he has ideas if those ideas don't cost any money to implement?
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Old 04-29-2009, 03:57 PM   #26
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Those are the very examples being given by the conservative rank and file right now for "purifying" their party. Thank you for proving his point. The party that helped Spector in 2004 won lots of elections. This version of the party finds only 21% of Americans claiming they are affiliated with them.
And the Republicans have taken a 3-point lead in the generic Congressional poll.

The party now is not so different from what it was in 2004, except it now has no public face (normal, when a party just lost the White House with no clear successor). Conservatives didn't kick Specter out of the party. He left it, a long time ago actually.
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Old 04-29-2009, 04:09 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by MikeWaters View Post
People hate govt. But they like roads. They like firefighters. They like having police. They like courts and jails. They like medical schools and public hospitals. They like public universities. They like universal education. They like having a military. They really don't see how this country could operate without laws and government.

The republicans have proven, definitively, that they cannot govern.
People like it all. Give me everything for nothing. Or take it from somebody else.

The process is grossly unreasonable as it is. Nobody wants to pay for it. So why doesn't any of the electorate curtail what we expect from government?
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Old 04-29-2009, 04:15 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by MikeWaters View Post
People hate govt. But they like roads. They like firefighters. They like having police. They like courts and jails. They like medical schools and public hospitals. They like public universities. They like universal education. They like having a military. They really don't see how this country could operate without laws and government.

The republicans have proven, definitively, that they cannot govern.
Even the hardest core libertarians aren't against roads, police, jails and national defense. The republicans have never been that anti-government. But their problem now is that at least on government size and economic issues they're not that much different than the socialist leaning dems. That's why they seem to have no message right now other than social issues and war, which are not resonating.
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Old 04-29-2009, 04:23 PM   #29
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Even the hardest core libertarians aren't against roads, police, jails and national defense. The republicans have never been that anti-government. But their problem now is that at least on government size and economic issues they're not that much different than the socialist leaning dems. That's why they seem to have no message right now other than social issues and war, which are not resonating.
But they are against the other things I mentioned?
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Old 04-29-2009, 04:24 PM   #30
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Even the hardest core libertarians aren't against roads, police, jails and national defense. The republicans have never been that anti-government. But their problem now is that at least on government size and economic issues they're not that much different than the socialist leaning dems. That's why they seem to have no message right now other than social issues and war, which are not resonating.
and that is part of Mike's hyperbole. Most people agree on minimal level of government services, but the politics of it all is that many politicians divert from primary activities to secondary activities in order to create a need for the primary activities and functions of government. It's a vicious cycle. Don't pay for the roads, pay for the pork first, and then say, "see Reps aren't paying for the roads."
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