Please, please, please don't let this GC be about gay marriage - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

MikeWaters · 04-03-2015, 07:45 PM

I am so sick of the "Defense of marriage" being about gay persons.

MikeWaters · 04-03-2015, 08:13 PM

SLTrib saying that female reporters no longer banned from Priesthood meeting.

http://www.sltrib.com/lifestyle/fait...porters-attend

BlueK · 04-07-2015, 03:58 PM

They didn't talk about it much. It definitely wasn't a major theme in any way. I think they did a good job talking about Jesus Christ with some good talks about faith and doubt, as well as extending love to those who struggle.

BlueK · 04-07-2015, 04:46 PM

Over on Lebowski's board last week there was a prominent poster and ex-member who tries pretty hard these days to push his agenda. He was saying he had it "on good authority" that President Monson wouldn't participate at all because he's not just sick but totally out of it mentally. After watching it, President Monson did quite well, I would say. He looks old and the speech seems to come a little harder these days but he was certainly coherent and clear in his messages. When all was said and done, even that poster admitted he must have had bad info, which says a lot considering his combative persona on there.

But what made this more interesting and more personal for me was when my brother in law called my wife yesterday to talk about it. We've known he and his wife hadn't been going to church for a few years now, but we've never said anything to them about it. They live in another state and it's never really come up when we've seen them or talked. All of my wife's four siblings are out of the church now. The real drama over family members leaving the church was kind of used up several years ago when my wife's older sister left.

To me, the funny thing about her brother yesterday was how basically he was miffed that he decides to not be LDS anymore but no one in the family wants to talk about it. Like I said, the family is long over the drama of family members dropping out of the church. It just seemed funny to me that he cared about that. Knowing my wife's other siblings and her mom, I can see how it wouldn't seem to be that fun for any of them to talk to him, even with them not being in the church. I mean, he is a lawyer and not always fun for a lot of folks to argue with. I do like him and he's always nice to me, but understanding the personalities and interests of the rest of my wife's family, I'm not surprised they're not engaging him on it. It does make me a little curious whether his "need" to discuss it is about trying to further convince himself about what he's doing.

So then tying it back to the poster on the other site, her brother mentioned the same thing about President Monson being totally out of it with dementia and then being surprised when my wife told him he seemed old but actually spoke pretty well. And if true, he didn't seem to be hampered that much by it during the conference. It leads me to believe that this modern leaving the church crowd that lives on the internet is largely an echo chamber of folks who mostly lean agnostic and atheist, all repeating the same stuff to each other and fanning the anger among themselves. From what I've seen and heard of it, I question how it can really be very healthy for the participants. If it's not for you anymore, why not just move on.

ChinoCoug · 04-07-2015, 05:05 PM

John Dehlin was publicly speculating that Monson had dementia.

BlueK · 04-07-2015, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChinoCoug

John Dehlin was publicly speculating that Monson had dementia.

The current discussion leader of the echo chamber. I also find it strange how my brother in law and others who don't really want to be in the church anymore get angry about Dehlin getting exed. Is it because the church took away his control over the timing of making the official break from an organization he didn't participate in anymore anyway? Is it because they like that as a member he maybe had some credibility with those who are still mostly in but aren't totally sure, and now think that he won't have the same influence? Is it just general anger at the church's authority to do that?

MikeWaters · 04-08-2015, 12:58 AM

I've felt that something was "off" about President Monson for a long time. I mean that the President Monson of now isn't exactly the same guy I grew up with. The sparkle in his eye is gone. He's feels a half-beat off. He's not nearly as dynamic as we might have expected him to be as prophet. He lacks the warmth and charisma of a President Hinckley.

And this might entirely be explained by cognitive impairment. But I don't see that as a big issue. It's certainly not a scandal, if true. It's just the decline of the human body and mind that is natural to our species. And we have a system set up to help us in such situations. We have presidencies and quorums that act as checks and balances.

Now I suppose the critics might argue that there should be more transparency in cases where this occurs. Thus it is a "lie". It's a hard thing for all of us to handle in our lives.

I had a moment this weekend where I asked my father to open up the hood of the truck he used to own. I popped the latch from inside and my father told me he didn't know how and couldn't do it. (!!!) Now in this case I don't think it's due to dementia or cognitive impairment, but certainly the thought crossed my mind.

It's usually a gradual slide into impairment. Thus it's hard to know what to report and when. It's the rare person that announces to the world "I have been diagnosed with Alzheimer's, so though I appear pretty normal to you now, that will soon change over the next few years." I've read of people doing this, but it isn't common.

I could personally embrace a leader with known cognitive problems, believing that the quorum and presidency would look after him. It wouldn't damage my testimony. The same thing will happen to me most likely, if I live long enough. I'll be the old guy repeating the same stories over and over, forgetting things left and right.

My grandfather had sudden impairment. He had a stroke, and was never the same after it, though he lived many years longer. His personality was very different afterwards. He was not the same person at all. It was hard on me, to know what to make of that. But such is life.

If President Monson of my youth is largely gone, I can feel sad about that. But I had that, and it was something. And that's ok.

MikeWaters · 04-08-2015, 03:41 PM

Clarification: dementia is not an inevitability and should not be considered part of default aging. It is common among people who are over 80. So because you are getting old, you shouldn't assume that dementia will occur.

BlueK · 04-08-2015, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I've felt that something was "off" about President Monson for a long time. I mean that the President Monson of now isn't exactly the same guy I grew up with. The sparkle in his eye is gone. He's feels a half-beat off. He's not nearly as dynamic as we might have expected him to be as prophet. He lacks the warmth and charisma of a President Hinckley.

And this might entirely be explained by cognitive impairment. But I don't see that as a big issue. It's certainly not a scandal, if true. It's just the decline of the human body and mind that is natural to our species. And we have a system set up to help us in such situations. We have presidencies and quorums that act as checks and balances.

Now I suppose the critics might argue that there should be more transparency in cases where this occurs. Thus it is a "lie". It's a hard thing for all of us to handle in our lives.

I had a moment this weekend where I asked my father to open up the hood of the truck he used to own. I popped the latch from inside and my father told me he didn't know how and couldn't do it. (!!!) Now in this case I don't think it's due to dementia or cognitive impairment, but certainly the thought crossed my mind.

It's usually a gradual slide into impairment. Thus it's hard to know what to report and when. It's the rare person that announces to the world "I have been diagnosed with Alzheimer's, so though I appear pretty normal to you now, that will soon change over the next few years." I've read of people doing this, but it isn't common.

I could personally embrace a leader with known cognitive problems, believing that the quorum and presidency would look after him. It wouldn't damage my testimony. The same thing will happen to me most likely, if I live long enough. I'll be the old guy repeating the same stories over and over, forgetting things left and right.

My grandfather had sudden impairment. He had a stroke, and was never the same after it, though he lived many years longer. His personality was very different afterwards. He was not the same person at all. It was hard on me, to know what to make of that. But such is life.

If President Monson of my youth is largely gone, I can feel sad about that. But I had that, and it was something. And that's ok.

Well stated. I have no medical training, so obviously it's even harder for me to know what I'm seeing when someone of that age seems different. I agree he doesn't seem to be exactly as he once was. We've seen this happen before with previous prophets, but I guess you'd have to be of a certain age now to remember when President Hinckley was a counselor who had to carry most of the load for a couple of prophets before he himself became the president. It doesn't seem all that long ago to me, but I guess it's been nearly 30 years.

MikeWaters · 04-08-2015, 04:54 PM

Historically we have seen people change for the better as President. Something about the mantle and responsibility changing people. I don't know that I can really say that about President Monson. He wasn't some loose cannon that had to be reined in. He just doesn't seem to have the same mental vitality that he had before.

But looking at someone through the lens of General Conference is deceptive. It's a presentation. Best foot forward. People reading prepared remarks. It doesn't necessarily tell us what a person is like.

And someone could be pretty impaired and still be able to read a teleprompter.

There was the controversy about President Benson and his mental state. His grandson was the one who fanned the flames of that.

Then on the secular side there was President Reagan.

04-03-2015, 07:45 PM	#1
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	Please, please, please don't let this GC be about gay marriage I am so sick of the "Defense of marriage" being about gay persons.

04-07-2015, 04:46 PM	#4
BlueK Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 2,368	Over on Lebowski's board last week there was a prominent poster and ex-member who tries pretty hard these days to push his agenda. He was saying he had it "on good authority" that President Monson wouldn't participate at all because he's not just sick but totally out of it mentally. After watching it, President Monson did quite well, I would say. He looks old and the speech seems to come a little harder these days but he was certainly coherent and clear in his messages. When all was said and done, even that poster admitted he must have had bad info, which says a lot considering his combative persona on there. But what made this more interesting and more personal for me was when my brother in law called my wife yesterday to talk about it. We've known he and his wife hadn't been going to church for a few years now, but we've never said anything to them about it. They live in another state and it's never really come up when we've seen them or talked. All of my wife's four siblings are out of the church now. The real drama over family members leaving the church was kind of used up several years ago when my wife's older sister left. To me, the funny thing about her brother yesterday was how basically he was miffed that he decides to not be LDS anymore but no one in the family wants to talk about it. Like I said, the family is long over the drama of family members dropping out of the church. It just seemed funny to me that he cared about that. Knowing my wife's other siblings and her mom, I can see how it wouldn't seem to be that fun for any of them to talk to him, even with them not being in the church. I mean, he is a lawyer and not always fun for a lot of folks to argue with. I do like him and he's always nice to me, but understanding the personalities and interests of the rest of my wife's family, I'm not surprised they're not engaging him on it. It does make me a little curious whether his "need" to discuss it is about trying to further convince himself about what he's doing. So then tying it back to the poster on the other site, her brother mentioned the same thing about President Monson being totally out of it with dementia and then being surprised when my wife told him he seemed old but actually spoke pretty well. And if true, he didn't seem to be hampered that much by it during the conference. It leads me to believe that this modern leaving the church crowd that lives on the internet is largely an echo chamber of folks who mostly lean agnostic and atheist, all repeating the same stuff to each other and fanning the anger among themselves. From what I've seen and heard of it, I question how it can really be very healthy for the participants. If it's not for you anymore, why not just move on. Last edited by BlueK; 04-07-2015 at 05:03 PM.

04-03-2015, 08:13 PM	#2
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	SLTrib saying that female reporters no longer banned from Priesthood meeting. http://www.sltrib.com/lifestyle/fait...porters-attend

04-07-2015, 03:58 PM	#3
BlueK Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 2,368	They didn't talk about it much. It definitely wasn't a major theme in any way. I think they did a good job talking about Jesus Christ with some good talks about faith and doubt, as well as extending love to those who struggle.

04-07-2015, 05:05 PM	#5
ChinoCoug Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NOVA Posts: 3,005	John Dehlin was publicly speculating that Monson had dementia.

04-08-2015, 12:58 AM	#7
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	I've felt that something was "off" about President Monson for a long time. I mean that the President Monson of now isn't exactly the same guy I grew up with. The sparkle in his eye is gone. He's feels a half-beat off. He's not nearly as dynamic as we might have expected him to be as prophet. He lacks the warmth and charisma of a President Hinckley. And this might entirely be explained by cognitive impairment. But I don't see that as a big issue. It's certainly not a scandal, if true. It's just the decline of the human body and mind that is natural to our species. And we have a system set up to help us in such situations. We have presidencies and quorums that act as checks and balances. Now I suppose the critics might argue that there should be more transparency in cases where this occurs. Thus it is a "lie". It's a hard thing for all of us to handle in our lives. I had a moment this weekend where I asked my father to open up the hood of the truck he used to own. I popped the latch from inside and my father told me he didn't know how and couldn't do it. (!!!) Now in this case I don't think it's due to dementia or cognitive impairment, but certainly the thought crossed my mind. It's usually a gradual slide into impairment. Thus it's hard to know what to report and when. It's the rare person that announces to the world "I have been diagnosed with Alzheimer's, so though I appear pretty normal to you now, that will soon change over the next few years." I've read of people doing this, but it isn't common. I could personally embrace a leader with known cognitive problems, believing that the quorum and presidency would look after him. It wouldn't damage my testimony. The same thing will happen to me most likely, if I live long enough. I'll be the old guy repeating the same stories over and over, forgetting things left and right. My grandfather had sudden impairment. He had a stroke, and was never the same after it, though he lived many years longer. His personality was very different afterwards. He was not the same person at all. It was hard on me, to know what to make of that. But such is life. If President Monson of my youth is largely gone, I can feel sad about that. But I had that, and it was something. And that's ok.

04-08-2015, 03:41 PM	#8
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	Clarification: dementia is not an inevitability and should not be considered part of default aging. It is common among people who are over 80. So because you are getting old, you shouldn't assume that dementia will occur.

04-08-2015, 04:54 PM	#10
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	Historically we have seen people change for the better as President. Something about the mantle and responsibility changing people. I don't know that I can really say that about President Monson. He wasn't some loose cannon that had to be reined in. He just doesn't seem to have the same mental vitality that he had before. But looking at someone through the lens of General Conference is deceptive. It's a presentation. Best foot forward. People reading prepared remarks. It doesn't necessarily tell us what a person is like. And someone could be pretty impaired and still be able to read a teleprompter. There was the controversy about President Benson and his mental state. His grandson was the one who fanned the flames of that. Then on the secular side there was President Reagan.