BYU: A legacy built on crappy SOS

[Ace Tomato Co.]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

I'm talking about the hypocrisy of BYU fans' attitude towards other teams that are winning with lesser schedules.

Thinking that BSU & Hawaii are both cowardly frauds does not make you a hypocrity if you also believe that the '84 championship was suspect as well. The system stinks, it always has. We "won" a national championship in '84 without a playoff, which means we didn't win anything at all except votes.

Saying that in '84 we didn't win anything except votes doesn't make you anti-BYU. That's just stupid.

Hawaii is ridiculous this year. They don't deserve to be ranked, much less sniffing a BCS bid. If you don't think SOS is very important, take a look at Hawaii's schedule - if you still think they ought to be ranked because they are "undefeated", then you don't know much about college football.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by Ace Tomato Co.

Thinking that BSU & Hawaii are both cowardly frauds does not make you a hypocrity if you also believe that the '84 championship was suspect as well.

I'm talking about those that object to the "yeah, but who did you beat" argument 1984 national title, yet do the same thing to people like Boise State.

If you personally think that BYU's national title was suspect, then my post obviously doesn't apply to you.

P.S. I've even seen this complaint lobbed at Kansas this year, and they're ranked #1 in Sagarin.

[BlueK]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

I'm talking about those that object to the "yeah, but who did you beat" argument 1984 national title, yet do the same thing to people like Boise State.

If you personally think that BYU's national title was suspect, then my post obviously doesn't apply to you.

How many players from that 1984 team made it in the NFL? How many from this Hawaii team will? Not nearly as many, IMO. It's my recollection that the 84 team had more NFL talent on it than just about any BYU team ever. Is that true or false? I could be wrong but I don't think I am. I don't think Hawaii is going to win out anyway because I don't think they're a good team.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by BlueK

How many players from that 1984 team made it in the NFL? How many from this Hawaii team will? Not nearly as many, IMO. It's my recollection that the 84 team had more NFL talent on it than just about any BYU team ever. Is that true or false? I could be wrong but I don't think I am. I don't think Hawaii is going to win out anyway because I don't think they're a good team.

BlueK, this goes beyond the specifics of Hawaii 2007. I'm not trying to defend Hawaii 2007. I'm fighting against the same SOS mindset that was used against us back in 1984; which has resulted in many teams beyond Hawaii 2007 (Utah 2004, Boise State 2006, etc.) being criticized by BYU fans who should have known better.

I lived in Tennessee in 1984. I had to listen to a daily diet of this crap back then. I don't particularly enjoy hearing it fans of my own school.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by BlueK

How many players from that 1984 team made it in the NFL? How many from this Hawaii team will? Not nearly as many, IMO. It's my recollection that the 84 team had more NFL talent on it than just about any BYU team ever. Is that true or false? I could be wrong but I don't think I am. I don't think Hawaii is going to win out anyway because I don't think they're a good team.

To continue this aside, another reason for the BYU championship was the fact that the previous year, the Y went 11-1 and most returned. So in reality, the team won the votes because it had gone 24-1 in 2 years. It was a good team.

That being said, I have always thought our SOS was suspect then and now. Our conference has always been a mid-tier conference.

[Ace Tomato Co.]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

I'm talking about those that object to the "yeah, but who did you beat" argument 1984 national title, yet do the same thing to people like Boise State.

If you personally think that BYU's national title was suspect, then my post obviously doesn't apply to you.

P.S. I've even seen this complaint lobbed at Kansas this year, and they're ranked #1 in Sagarin.

OK, so we make the distinction. But just out of curiosity, do you feel that:

A) BYU deserved to be called national champions in '84?
B) BSU deserved to get a BCS invite in '06?
C) Hawaii will deserve a BCS invite if they win out in '07?

I realize that you may have had to listen to a lot of anti-BYU sentiment back in '84. But I can't believe that experience would force you to become an apologist for crappy SOS.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by Ace Tomato Co.

OK, so we make the distinction. But just out of curiosity, do you feel that:

A) BYU deserved to be called national champions in '84?
B) BSU deserved to get a BCS invite in '06?
C) Hawaii will deserve a BCS invite if they win out in '07?

I realize that you may have had to listen to a lot of anti-BYU sentiment back in '84. But I can't believe that experience would force you to become an apologist for crappy SOS.

A) Yes
B) Yes
C) Probably not unless they really crank their defense up a couple of notches and look impressive vs. Fresno, Boise and Washington. They need a lot of style points. They have virtually no style points right now. It's not their weak schedule so much as how they've looked against their schedule. That's a distinct difference, IMO.

Hawaii isn't the most aggressive scheduler, but at least one of their 1-AA games this year was due to a BCS team wimping out on them.

[Indy Coug]

While we're at it here, why didn't BYU get a Bowl Alliance bid in 1996? It was at least in part because they hadn't beaten anybody. A&M was 6-6 that year. They looked horrible in a loss to Washington. Their SOS was sub-0.500

Does anyone here (other than Ute trolls) think BYU, ranked #5 prior to the Cotton Bowl, was rightfully excluded from the Bowl Alliance in 1996? I don't.

[Ace Tomato Co.]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

A) Yes
B) Yes
C) Probably not unless they really crank their defense up a couple of notches and look impressive vs. Fresno, Boise and Washington. They need a lot of style points. They have virtually no style points right now. It's not their weak schedule so much as how they've looked against their schedule. That's a distinct difference, IMO.

Hawaii isn't the most aggressive scheduler, but at least one of their 1-AA games this year was due to a BCS team wimping out on them.

Well, we all have our limits; my SOS limit is just stronger than yours. SOS matters.

This argument can go on forever and get redundant & boring. At the end of the day all of us agree that a playoff would be best, and stop all this stupid arguing. It gets to the point where we care more about college football's system than about college football itself.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

A) Yes
B) Yes
C) Probably not unless they really crank their defense up a couple of notches and look impressive vs. Fresno, Boise and Washington. They need a lot of style points. They have virtually no style points right now. It's not their weak schedule so much as how they've looked against their schedule. That's a distinct difference, IMO.

Hawaii isn't the most aggressive scheduler, but at least one of their 1-AA games this year was due to a BCS team wimping out on them.

Hawaii looked amazing against San Jose State. Many national championship quests have died on that Spartans home turf, but Hawaii dominated an otherwise high calibre foe.