Wrapping Brodie up...

[MikeWaters]

Overall the Bringhurst is a fast, easy read. I did get the sense of who Brodie was, but one walks away feeling like this was a superficial treatment. Brodie was the obssessive/compulsive type. She guarded information about herself, and to some degree, we wonder if we have really penetrated her inner psyche.

We see no evidence of spiritual struggle in her life. Her children speculate that she was agnostic earlier in life, and atheistic near the end of her life.

She valued her marriage and her children. She was a compulsive worker, never voluntarily going on vacations. One of her children commented that only in death did she learn to live--her work dominated her life. She maintained lifelong relationships and over the years hobnobbed with some leading minds over the years. Much of this was due to her husband's work with RAND. But others were literary figures, some in Utah, others elsewhere.

She had great disdain for the LDS church. When she went to South American, she was surprised and saddened to see LDS success there (though she admired the effort).

Early in her adult life, she may have regretted aspects of "No Man Knows My History" but we get no sense of that in her middle age and later.

Interestingly one of the editors for the Thomas Jefferson book made a statement to the effect "does she know nothing of gathering the facts and allowing them to form the hypothesis rather than the other way around?" This has to be considered one of her weaknesses. Her lack of objectivity combined with her belief in her "complete objectivity."

We've discussed that at the end of her life when her younger brother Thomas visited her, she asked for a blessing. She was in great pain and suffering from cancer. To give you an idea about how much she guarded her personal information, days later, she felt compelled to write a statement explaining why she had asked for this, and how this in no way represented any change in feeling towards the LDS church. To me, that is pretty amazing. You are about to die, and this is foremost on your mind. I think it reveals a lot about her.

The book is replete with bitter statements about the church and her uncle DOM. "Bitter apostate" would not be untrue, in my opinion, but of course, if we are to try and know the person, we can't stop there.

In the end we get no picture of any torturedness that Fusnik11 alluded to. Could it be that Fusnik11, with some connection in Ogden, has had access to sources that Bringhurst did not? Did Bringhurst himself start with a hypothesis of who Fawn McKay Brodie was and then ignore contrary evidence? Or, most likely, an anonymous person on the internet should not be considered a likely valid source? Who knows.

She does come across like SU. Sort of the "if you are educated, you are likely to reject this Mormonism claptrap." "It's obvious to any rational person that has heard about the golden plates that Joseph Smith was a fraud." "The Book of Mormon, on its face is an obvious work of fiction." Based on her statements, one gets the impression that this is the depth of her understanding of the gospel and restoration. I think this in some way is the most disappointing thing. That she did not even come close to understanding the heart of Mormonism. To her, it was nothing more than provincial cultural baggage. It is ironic that someone with so superficial an understanding of religion (she rejected all religions and thought Christianity ridiculous) is held up as a leading light of Mormon religious history (by some).

For example if you read Krakauer you quickly get the impression that he does not "get" Mormonism at all. This is understandable, given Krakauer's superficial treatment and outsider status. However, it is more surprising in Brodie's case.

Brodie should get credit for leading the field of Mormon history into a new era of objectivity. She was the first. And a somewhat unlikely candidate. A housewife not trained in history. I suspect a better biography of Joseph Smith will come later, when someone comes along who is a more gifted writer than Bushman or Brodie, and who has complete access to church records (it's not clear to me that Bushman had this).

It's been 25 years from Brodie's death. Her remains are scattered in the Santa Monica mountains. The LDS church has more than doubled in size since her death.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Overall the Bringhurst is a fast, easy read. I did get the sense of who Brodie was, but one walks away feeling like this was a superficial treatment. Brodie was the obssessive/compulsive type. She guarded information about herself, and to some degree, we wonder if we have really penetrated her inner psyche.

We see no evidence of spiritual struggle in her life. Her children speculate that she was agnostic earlier in life, and atheistic near the end of her life.

She valued her marriage and her children. She was a compulsive worker, never voluntarily going on vacations. One of her children commented that only in death did she learn to live--her work dominated her life. She maintained lifelong relationships and over the years hobnobbed with some leading minds over the years. Much of this was due to her husband's work with RAND. But others were literary figures, some in Utah, others elsewhere.

She had great disdain for the LDS church. When she went to South American, she was surprised and saddened to see LDS success there (though she admired the effort).

Early in her adult life, she may have regretted aspects of "No Man Knows My History" but we get no sense of that in her middle age and later.

Interestingly one of the editors for the Thomas Jefferson book made a statement to the effect "does she know nothing of gathering the facts and allowing them to form the hypothesis rather than the other way around?" This has to be considered one of her weaknesses. Her lack of objectivity combined with her belief in her "complete objectivity."

We've discussed that at the end of her life when her younger brother Thomas visited her, she asked for a blessing. She was in great pain and suffering from cancer. To give you an idea about how much she guarded her personal information, days later, she felt compelled to write a statement explaining why she had asked for this, and how this in no way represented any change in feeling towards the LDS church. To me, that is pretty amazing. You are about to die, and this is foremost on your mind. I think it reveals a lot about her.

The book is replete with bitter statements about the church and her uncle DOM. "Bitter apostate" would not be untrue, in my opinion, but of course, if we are to try and know the person, we can't stop there.

In the end we get no picture of any torturedness that Fusnik11 alluded to. Could it be that Fusnik11, with some connection in Ogden, has had access to sources that Bringhurst did not? Did Bringhurst himself start with a hypothesis of who Fawn McKay Brodie was and then ignore contrary evidence? Or, most likely, an anonymous person on the internet should not be considered a likely valid source? Who knows.

She does come across like SU. Sort of the "if you are educated, you are likely to reject this Mormonism claptrap." "It's obvious to any rational person that has heard about the golden plates that Joseph Smith was a fraud." "The Book of Mormon, on its face is an obvious work of fiction." Based on her statements, one gets the impression that this is the depth of her understanding of the gospel and restoration. I think this in some way is the most disappointing thing. That she did not even come close to understanding the heart of Mormonism. To her, it was nothing more than provincial cultural baggage. It is ironic that someone with so superficial an understanding of religion (she rejected all religions and thought Christianity ridiculous) is held up as a leading light of Mormon religious history (by some).

For example if you read Krakauer you quickly get the impression that he does not "get" Mormonism at all. This is understandable, given Krakauer's superficial treatment and outsider status. However, it is more surprising in Brodie's case.

Brodie should get credit for leading the field of Mormon history into a new era of objectivity. She was the first. And a somewhat unlikely candidate. A housewife not trained in history. I suspect a better biography of Joseph Smith will come later, when someone comes along who is a more gifted writer than Bushman or Brodie, and who has complete access to church records (it's not clear to me that Bushman had this).

It's been 25 years from Brodie's death. Her remains are scattered in the Santa Monica mountains. The LDS church has more than doubled in size since her death.

Thanks! Very interesting. Brodie and I do see the world much the same way, but not entirely. Unlike her, I don't see Christianity as "ridiculous"; it often tends to cross over into the ridiculous, and the American Religion is very susceptible to this. Much as I am unable to believe the concept of virgin birth from a rational, what really happened perspective, the concept very self-evidently holds great power. I think I am also a greater cheerleader for Western Civilization and its institutions in general than she seems to be. She was probably more of a leftist, but she had to deal with the oppressive experience of being a woman in Utah.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

We've discussed that at the end of her life when her younger brother Thomas visited her, she asked for a blessing. She was in great pain and suffering from cancer. To give you an idea about how much she guarded her personal information, days later, she felt compelled to write a statement explaining why she had asked for this, and how this in no way represented any change in feeling towards the LDS church. To me, that is pretty amazing. You are about to die, and this is foremost on your mind. I think it reveals a lot about her.

There are no athiests in foxholes.

Thanks for the summary. It sounds as this is an interesting read.