Historians have usurped the prophets

[Tex]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I heard an account of the SWK biography over the pulpit from my Stake President. SWK made a herculean effort to gradually over time draw the FP and Q12 into unanimity over the issue.

I don't doubt that he did.

How do you know that isn't what God instructed him to do?

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Tex

I don't doubt that he did.

How do you know that isn't what God instructed him to do?

God educates the mind of his leaders so that they can act independently. I don't believe he holds their hand, "Now Spencer go get Tommy to agree."

Your view of God's dealings is so primary based.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Archaea

God educates the mind of his leaders so that they can act independently. I don't believe he holds their hand, "Now Spencer go get Tommy to agree."

Your view of God's dealings is so primary based.

I don't know about hand-holding, but an actively engaged God is most consistent with our scripture and teachings.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Tex

I don't know about hand-holding, but an actively engaged God is most consistent with our scripture and teachings.

actually a God who only answers the door when someone knocks is most consistent with Mormon doctrine, IMO.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

actually a God who only answers the door when someone knocks is most consistent with Mormon doctrine, IMO.

This is more accurate IMHO.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

actually a God who only answers the door when someone knocks is most consistent with Mormon doctrine, IMO.

This couldn't be more incorrect. There is much discussed on CG which is non-doctrine, but this is plain false.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Adam

This is quite a revealing posit from Tex.

If you believe that God is micro-managing the affairs of the kingdom, you would act like Tex acts and defend every minor squeek in the engine as being there by God's design and contintuing there by God's will.

I didn't say micro-managing.

Originally Posted by Adam

I don't know how anyone could read the accounts of the Saints migration from NY to Kirtland to MO to IL and believe this.

Why, because if God were involved, the outcome would've been different?

[YOhio]

David B. Haight spoke of his experience with the 1978 revelation in General Conference:

I would hope someday that our great-grandson Mark and others of our posterity would have similar spiritual experiences and that they would feel the spiritual power and influence of this gospel. I hope that Mark and others will have opportunities such as I had when I was in the temple when President Spencer W. Kimball received the revelation regarding the priesthood. I was the junior member of the Quorum of the Twelve. I was there. I was there with the outpouring of the Spirit in that room so strong that none of us could speak afterwards. We just left quietly to go back to the office. No one could say anything because of the powerful outpouring of the heavenly spiritual experience.

But just a few hours after the announcement was made to the press, I was assigned to attend a stake conference in Detroit, Michigan. When my plane landed in Chicago, I noticed an edition of the Chicago Tribune on the newsstand. The headline in the paper said, “Mormons Give Blacks Priesthood.” And the subheading said, “President Kimball Claims to Have Received a Revelation.” I bought a copy of the newspaper. I stared at one word in that subheading—claims. It stood out to me just like it was in red neon. As I walked along the hallway to make my plane connection, I thought, Here I am now in Chicago walking through this busy airport, yet I was a witness to this revelation. I was there. I witnessed it. I felt that heavenly influence. I was part of it. Little did the editor of that newspaper realize the truth of that revelation when he wrote, “… Claims to Have Received a Revelation.” Little did he know, or the printer, or the man who put the ink on the press, or the one who delivered the newspaper—little did any of them know that it was truly a revelation from God. Little did they know what I knew because I was a witness to it.
(David B. Haight, “This Work Is True,” Ensign, May 1996, 22).

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Adam

God is not "actively engaged". If he were, yes, the outcomes would be differently.

I view this line as probably the signature mistake in the house of cards that is Adam's theology.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by Adam

So you do believe that the best possible path for the restoration went through Fanny's pants, bankruptcy in Kirtland, the Liberty jail, and Haun's Mill?

Or by spending 40 years in the Sinai or spending only 3 of your 33 living years (and doing who knows what the first 30 years) preaching to an unreceptive people that are going to kill you or spreading yourself too thin by spreading the Gospel to too many places in Asia Minor where you have little to no oversight and don't possess the logistical werewithal to keep the church from rapidly sliding into the crapper?