Acts 9:5 and 26:14 - Greek

[MikeWaters]

it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

Is there anything in the greek that would add insight?

I understand that "prick" refers to a sharp stick used to poke cattle, and that cattle would sometime react by kicking backwards.

[Archaea]

It comes from Kentron.

Here is the Strong's on the latter verse.

any sharp point, sting (figuratively poison), prick or goad (figuratively divine impulse

[Mormon Red Death]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Is there anything in the greek that would add insight?

I understand that "prick" refers to a sharp stick used to poke cattle, and that cattle would sometime react by kicking backwards.

I dont know Greek but I always heard that the pricks were bar just above the legs on a carriage or chariot. thus if the horse kicks against it its calf muscles just hit the bar and hurt itself

[All-American]

εἶπεν δέ, Τίς εἶ, κύριε; ὁ δέ, Ἐγώ εἰμι Ἰησοῦς ὃν σὺ διώκεις:

And he said, Who are you, Lord? And he [responded], I am Jesus who you persecute.

Notice that Jesus uses "Ego eimi" to identify himself-- as he did in life, so in the resurrection he identifies himself as "I am."

The word diwkeis means to follow after, just as the word "persecute" comes from the Latin "sequor," to follow. Persecute is therefore a perfect translation.

πάντων τε καταπεσόντων ἡμῶν εἰς τὴν γῆν ἤκουσα φωνὴν λέγουσαν πρός με τῇ Ἑβραΐδι διαλέκτῳ, Σαοὺλ Σαούλ, τί με διώκεις; σκληρόν σοι πρὸς κέντρα λακτίζειν.

And while we were falling to the earth, I heard a voice saying to me in the Hebrew language, Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me? It is hard for you to kick toward the pricks.

The most interesting thing I see in here is skleron, translated as "hard." One lexicon offers the following:

"1) hard, harsh, rough, stiff 1a) of men: metaph. harsh, stern, hard 1b) of things: violent, rough, offensive, intolerable."

And here's what it says for kentra, or "prick":

" 1) a sting, as that of bees, scorpions, locusts. Since animals wound by their sting and even cause death, Paul attributes death, personified as a sting, i.e. a deadly weapon 2) an iron goad, for urging on oxen, horses and other beasts of burden 2a) hence the proverb, "to kick against the goad", i.e. to offer vain and perilous or ruinous resistance."

[Archaea]

Here's the entire verse, with the last two words being those in question.

πάντων τε καταπεσόντων ἡμῶν εἰς τὴν γῆν ἤκουσα φωνὴν λέγουσαν πρός με τῇ Ἑβραΐδι διαλέκτῳ Σαοὺλ Σαούλ τί με διώκεις σκληρόν σοι πρὸς κέντρα λακτίζειν

λακτίζειν

This is verb, laktizw, kick or spurn, even though it also means "to recalcitrate". It's in the present active infinitive form.

Now that I look at the sentence, it's a little harder for a novice to translate.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by All-American

εἶπεν δέ, Τίς εἶ, κύριε; ὁ δέ, Ἐγώ εἰμι Ἰησοῦς ὃν σὺ διώκεις:

And he said, Who are you, Lord? And he [responded], I am Jesus who you persecute.

Notice that Jesus uses "Ego eimi" to identify himself-- as he did in life, so in the resurrection he identifies himself as "I am."

The word diwkeis means to follow after, just as the word "persecute" comes from the Latin "sequor," to follow. Persecute is therefore a perfect translation.

πάντων τε καταπεσόντων ἡμῶν εἰς τὴν γῆν ἤκουσα φωνὴν λέγουσαν πρός με τῇ Ἑβραΐδι διαλέκτῳ, Σαοὺλ Σαούλ, τί με διώκεις; σκληρόν σοι πρὸς κέντρα λακτίζειν.

And while we were falling to the earth, I heard a voice saying to me in the Hebrew language, Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me? It is hard for you to kick toward the goad.

The most interesting thing I see in here is skleron, translated as "hard." One lexicon offers the following:

"1) hard, harsh, rough, stiff 1a) of men: metaph. harsh, stern, hard 1b) of things: violent, rough, offensive, intolerable."

And here's what it says for kentra, or "prick":

" 1) a sting, as that of bees, scorpions, locusts. Since animals wound by their sting and even cause death, Paul attributes death, personified as a sting, i.e. a deadly weapon 2) an iron goad, for urging on oxen, horses and other beasts of burden 2a) hence the proverb, "to kick against the goad", i.e. to offer vain and perilous or ruinous resistance."

Thanks, you have better knowledge and resources. Although isn't kentra, the accusative plural neuter form, and not singular? Again you are more knowledgeable than I.

[All-American]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Thanks, you have better knowledge and resources. Although isn't kentra, the accusative plural neuter form, and not singular? Again you are more knowledgeable than I.

There's a little bit of latitude when it comes to neuters in Greek. It is permissible, for example, for a sentence with a neuter plural subject to have a verb conjugated in the singular form. "Pricks" probably would be better, though.

[All-American]

After thinking about it a little more, here's what I believe about "skleron."

When I had read it in English, I thought that "hard" meant "difficult." I got the picture of Jesus kind of nodding in Paul's direction, admitting that it is difficult for him to forsake his upbringing (which I had interpreted to be the "pricks") and embrace this strange Christianity.

I now think that Jesus is issuing a stern rebuke to Paul, telling him that it is rough, offensive, or intolerable that he should be resisting the urgings of the spirit (which I now believe is what He referred to in speaking of the "pricks").

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by All-American

After thinking about it a little more, here's what I believe about "skleron."

When I had read it in English, I thought that "hard" meant "difficult." I got the picture of Jesus kind of nodding in Paul's direction, admitting that it is difficult for him to forsake his upbringing (which I had interpreted to be the "pricks") and embrace this strange Christianity.

I now think that Jesus is issuing a stern rebuke to Paul, telling him that it is rough, offensive, or intolerable that he should be resisting the urgings of the spirit (which I now believe is what He referred to in speaking of the "pricks").

In the context of recalcitrate, that makes sense. I like that, Why are you resisting the Divine Promptings?