Christianity = Judaism * Pagan_Philosophy ?

[ChinoCoug]

hahaha, I knew this claim was fishy.

I stumbled on to this in Raymond E. Brown this morning,

The attempts to see the evangelists' portrayals of Jesus as influenced by the Pagan "divine" (theios aner) ideology are highly controverted. The contention that early Christian christology (hailing Jesus as "Lord" and "Son of God") stemmed from Hellenizing the memory of Jesus under the influence of Pagan polytheism was once popular but is now a minority view. John's picture of a world divided into the children of light and the children of darkness, once thought to be phrased in a language derived from the non-Jewish religious sources, is now attested in the DSS. In short, scholars have not demonstrated that in a dominant way Pagan religion shaped the theology or christology of the NT.

SeattleUte tried to paint a minority view as basic knowledge. Once again, he's full of it (not that we didn't know that already).

[woot]

Evolution is also a minority view (in the US anyway), but is also basic knowledge. Many people don't care about basic knowledge.

[ChinoCoug]

Originally Posted by woot

Evolution is also a minority view (in the US anyway), but is also basic knowledge. Many people don't care about basic knowledge.

evolution's not a minority view among scientists. not //

[tooblue]

Originally Posted by ChinoCoug

evolution's not a minority view among scientists. not //

And where was I when it was removed from EVERY curriculum across North America?

[SeattleUte]

Greek philosophy, not "pagan religion", you moron. See Philo of Alexandria, Logos, Stoicism, Platonism. Don't come here quoting bald assertions from your apologist icons. Apologists are, by definition, liars. There isn't one of them I'd loan enough to buy a beer. They're all liars and cheats.

[SeattleUte]

Chino, explain this. How did the (anonymous, imagine that) authors of the gospels (writing decades or even over a century after Christ's death) manage the mental gymnastics of being enough imbued with Greek intellectualism to have preferred to write their stories in the flawless Greek of Greek philosophers of the day, and avoid being infected in any way with the Greek outlook? Truth is they borrowed it in spades, demonstrably. People in those days learned to write perfectly in Greek for a reason. They were practitioners of Greek philosophy.

There isn't a bigger fraud that FARMS has tried to perpetrate than "Hellenism of Christianity" being a corruption of Christianity (rather than a but for cause of Christianity's advent). I guess it has to find an "intellectual" explanation for the "great apostasy" and a restored gospel.

[ChinoCoug]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Greek philosophy, not "pagan religion", you moron. See Philo of Alexandria, Logos, Stoicism, Platonism. Don't come here quoting bald assertions from your apologist icons. Apologists are, by definition, liars. There isn't one of them I'd loan enough to buy a beer. They're all liars and cheats.

Brown does address philosophy, you moron.

SU gets a heart attack, redefines the terms like always, limp use of ad-hominem.

If you new anything about John's "children of light" those exemplified the charges that John was overly influenced by Platonism. Influence <> Advent, I know it's hard for you liberal arts softies to understand. Paul made it clear he wasn't a philosopher. Brown continues for another pg about philosophy.

Brown's work I'm quoting is the standard NT textbook. An apologist is anyone who doesn't agree with you.

Your view is a minority view. Yup, you're full it.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by ChinoCoug

Brown does address philosophy, you moron.

SU gets a heart attack, redefines the terms like always, limp use of ad-hominem.

If you new anything about John's "children of light" those exemplified the charges that John was overly influenced by Platonism. Influence <> Advent, I know it's hard for you liberal arts softies to understand. Paul made it clear he wasn't a philosopher. Brown continues for another pg about philosophy.

Brown's work I'm quoting is the standard NT textbook. An apologist is anyone who doesn't agree with you.

Your view is a minority view. Yup, you're full it.

My young friend (at least I hope you're young),

Understanding that Greek philsophy was a but for cause of Christianity is in many ways a sine qua non of an educated person. This is not a matter of majority and minority views; again, your position is like arguing that Great Britain corrupted the United States. Greek philosophy was in the air breathed by the individuals who composed the New Testament. Greek philosphy midwifed Christianity. Christianity is a fusion of Greek philosophy and Judaism. This is not a controverted issue among educated people.

What more proof do you want than that the entire New Testament, including Paul's letters, the earliest Christian writings in the Bible, were written in the exalted Greek of the educated Roman classes steeped in Greek philosophy? Paul was a Hellenized Jew. The gospels have Christ quoting the Septuagint. I have no doubt that Raymond E. Brown, a Catholic scholar and cleric, would agree with me were he alive today. His Pope is today appealing to European intellectuals by calling the Catholic Church the religion of the Logos.

I have never said that "pagan religion" influenced Christianity's advent in any way. You made that up. If you were to read Plato and Aristotle you would appreciate that their view is entirely compatible with monotheism. Seemingly you believe that they worshiped Zeus, Achilles, et al. You're wrong. And no one is saying that pagan religion influenced the rise of Christianity. That's your own fantasy and straw man.