BYU just hosted an international conference

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

I wouldn't expect many priesthood holders than have been members for less than 25 to 30 years to be General Authorities. I think you will start seeing African-American General Authorities in the next 10 to 15 years, but probably not before then.

Why not? Many converts within the last 30 years are serving as a member of the 70.

This is a big issue that is only going to get bigger. It will be highlighted in the Romney campaign, particularly if he is running against Obama. You could also look at the MoTab with its 3 African American members (up from 1 last conference!).

The problem as I see it isn't that African Americans are recent converts to the church. The problem is that most church authorities haven't associated with many African Americans leading to none being called. Take a look at the Quorum of the 12 and the 70. How many are even from outside of Utah (let alone minorities)? Not very many. Not many at all. We are an international church in membership terms only.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

Why not? Many converts within the last 30 years are serving as a member of the 70.

This is a big issue that is only going to get bigger. It will be highlighted in the Romney campaign, particularly if he is running against Obama. You could also look at the MoTab with its 3 African American members (up from 1 last conference!).

The problem as I see it isn't that African Americans are recent converts to the church. The problem is that most church authorities haven't associated with many African Americans leading to none being called. Take a look at the Quorum of the 12 and the 70. How many are even from outside of Utah (let alone minorities)? Not very many. Not many at all. We are an international church in membership terms only.

Well, the biggest issue is simply the sheer numbers involved. How many experienced AND worthy African-American members are there for this kind of consideration? I'm not saying they don't exist, but it's not likely there are hundreds upon hundreds of them out there, unlike with the current cohort of American Caucasians.

It's going to change soon, there is no doubt in my mind. If you look at many parts of America, the Caucasians aren't the ones that are joining the church, it's the Hispanic immigrants and people from Africa or are of African descent.

I taught mostly West Indians and West Africans on my mission in England. They are fantastic people and their time will shortly come.

What I object to is the implied suggestion you seem to be making that the church purposely seek out minority candidates to satisfy some sort of political purpose.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

I've worked for several multi-billion dollar companies and the CEOs all made 8 figure or nearly 8 figure salaries, when you include stock options, etc.

OK. And the avg Fortune 500 company CEO makes about the same as Selig. but MLB's revenues would not even put it on the Fortune 500 list. And the CEO salaries people hear about in the news are of companies that are more than 10 times the size of MLB. And Selig is really not a CEO. He's more of a trade association manager than a CEO. I don't really care, but can you call someone "economically ignorant" for questioning Selig's pay?

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by jay santos

OK. And the avg Fortune 500 company CEO makes about the same as Selig. but MLB's revenues would not even put it on the Fortune 500 list. And the CEO salaries people hear about in the news are of companies that are more than 10 times the size of MLB. And Selig is really not a CEO. He's more of a trade association manager than a CEO. I don't really care, but can you call someone "economically ignorant" for questioning Selig's pay?

Well, the MAIN contention BGRTHNUMEGO was making was that Selig shouldn't even be commissioner. I then provided economic data on why the owners have no reason to get rid of him. That has a helluva lot more to do with his economic ignorance than his objection about the dollar amount of Selig's salary.

But as usual, I don't expect you of all people to be able to pick up on that kind of distinction.

Furthermore, even if MLB isn't a Fortune 500 company, the amount of annual revenue MLB generates per employee is significantly larger than most Fortune 500 companies. This is why the average player salary is around $3M and it's why Selig can get $14.5M.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Well, the biggest issue is simply the sheer numbers involved. How many experienced AND worthy African-American members are there for this kind of consideration? I'm not saying they don't exist, but it's not likely there are hundreds upon hundreds of them out there, unlike with the current cohort of American Caucasians.

It's going to change soon, there is no doubt in my mind. If you look at many parts of America, the Caucasians aren't the ones that are joining the church, it's the Hispanic immigrants and people from Africa or are of African descent.

I taught mostly West Indians and West Africans on my mission in England. They are fantastic people and their time will shortly come.

What I object to is the implied suggestion you seem to be making that the church purposely seek out minority candidates to satisfy some sort of political purpose.

It isn't to satisfy a "political purpose," though they will be under some intense political scrutiny in the near future.

The reason I am sensitive to this is the same reason I am sensitive about the fact that the church didn't extend the priesthood to blacks until about 30 years ago. It just doesn't feel right. There are close to a million blacks in the church, and not a single full time GA called from their ranks. We have members of the 12 serving in the Phillipines and South America, but none in Africa (and, perhaps not by coincidence, the GAs just called are from the Phillipines and South America for the most part).

You overstate the importance of "experience" in calling someone to be a GA. How much experience did the original 12 apostles have? How much experience did the original 12 apostles in the restored church have? How much experience does one actually need to be a servant of the Lord? Missionaries get 2 months of training maximum, and they are the front lines of the church's communication network.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

There are close to a million blacks in the church,

Link?

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

You overstate the importance of "experience" in calling someone to be a GA. How much experience did the original 12 apostles have? How much experience did the original 12 apostles in the restored church have? How much experience does one actually need to be a servant of the Lord? Missionaries get 2 months of training maximum, and they are the front lines of the church's communication network.

It's pretty obvious how the bulk of the General Authorities get called these days. They serve as bishops, stake presidents, often as mission presidents before they get the call. It doesn't mean that's how it HAS to be, but it's a pattern that is followed closely.

In a church of "line upon line, precept upon precept", the Lord brings His people along and prepares them for greater responsibilities over time as people grow, prove their faithfulness and acquire the skills and experience that help in leading His church.

Pulling out an example of who Christ called to lead His church after a lengthy period of complete apostasy is really a poor analogy.

[MikeWaters]

The church is much more mature in Brazil and the Phillipines. I don't think they can be compared to Africa.

[Indy Coug]

The bulk of the work done in Africa has been in the last 15 to 20 years. Many of those missions had baptismal quotas they couldn't exceed in order to help manage the growth (i.e. retain membership and train leadership), or the membership growth would be even more explosive than it already is.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

The church is much more mature in Brazil and the Phillipines. I don't think they can be compared to Africa.

Even so, Elder Oaks was assigned to the Phillippines because of the large organizational issues that area faces.

[Mormon Red Death]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Well, the MAIN contention BGRTHNUMEGO was making was that Selig shouldn't even be commissioner. I then provided economic data on why the owners have no reason to get rid of him. That has a helluva lot more to do with his economic ignorance than his objection about the dollar amount of Selig's salary.

But as usual, I don't expect you of all people to be able to pick up on that kind of distinction.

Furthermore, even if MLB isn't a Fortune 500 company, the amount of annual revenue MLB generates per employee is significantly larger than most Fortune 500 companies. This is why the average player salary is around $3M and it's why Selig can get $14.5M.

Selig shouldn't be commissioner due to a conflict of interest... He owns the Milwaukee Breweres (even though now its in his daughter's name)