Black and Mormon

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Dare I say, the reason they don't explain it, because they believe the average member will lose respect for general authorities as a result.

And nothing could be more dangerous, they believe.

A chink in their armor is much worse than millions dwindling in unbelief. That is the calculus. And it pisses me off.

They're probably right. You're exhibit A. You've lost respect without them explaining it, but unlike most LDS you're not comotose concerning issues such as these. They want to keep everyone nicely anesthetized. See the CB zombies. They don't want a bunch of MikeWaters'.

[pelagius]

We swerved into the melodramatic.

[MikeWaters]

By the way, I love that Stapely letter to Mitt Romney's dad. I showed it to my father. He was stammering and mumbling in reply.

If ever human frailty was more apparent in a recent GA, I am not aware of it.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by pelagius

I should be clear; I am not accusing the typical member of racism. At least not more racist than most groups. Jeff correct me if I am wrong, but I think the Mauss article found that Mormons were less likely to be racist using standard sociological survey questions.

That is correct. I mentioned this study in an earlier post in this thread.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

By the way, I love that Stapely letter to Mitt Romney's dad. I showed it to my father. He was stammering and mumbling in reply.

If ever human frailty was more apparent in a recent GA, I am not aware of it.

also, my dad told me that my grandparents didn't like Mitt's dad, because he was too liberal. Funny.

[K-dog]

I think not addressing this is a huge PR nightmare. I don't know much about PR but what I know is this:

If you refuse to address a subject, the only voice heard, and therefore believed, is your opponents voice.

By not addressing the folklore, the GAs are allowing the antis to define why the ban was in place. Huge mistake.

[pelagius]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

By the way, I love that Stapely letter to Mitt Romney's dad. I showed it to my father. He was stammering and mumbling in reply.

If ever human frailty was more apparent in a recent GA, I am not aware of it.

Its an ugly letter. I would like to think that we have come a long way since that letter (both rank and file and leadership). I know you think we need, as a people, to go further but don't you think the Stapley letter is pretty distant in the mirror in terms of attitudes?

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by pelagius

Its an ugly letter. I would like to think that we have come a long way since that letter (both rank and file and leadership). I know you think we need, as a people, to go further but don't you think the Stapley letter is pretty distant in the mirror in terms of attitudes?

Know I don't think so at all. Where do Mormons stand on civil rights now? They certainly don't lead up the charge. SU has pointed out that the Jews have reacted to the persecution they have faced, by defending others.

Mormons, on the other hand, have reacted by piling on. Look at the way LDS have treated fLDS. Look at the way LDS goes after gay groups. Look how Mormons vote for far-right conservatives seemingly en bloc.

The idea that there is any kind of "awakening" or "enlightenment" among Mormons regarding race, and everything around race, is complete hogwash.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by pelagius

Guys, how do you think the typical member views or interprets Moses 7:22? I would be very pleased if most people were interpreting it in a figurative way or at least with the understanding that it doesn't apply to Africans in anyway way at all but must admit I am a little skeptical.

There is an entire chapter in the book devoted to that verse. The author argues that the verse has been extrapolated far beyond what it was meant to convey. I don't recall all of the arguments the author made, but one of them was that it runs 180 degrees counter to the second article of faith ("We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.") Dooming an entire race due to the actions of one person is neither just nor doctrinally sound.

To make the argument linking this verse to the ban, one would also have to connect blacks with Cain. This particular folklore has been traced back to England (several centuries) and was developed as a justification for slavery.

[pelagius]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Know I don't think so at all. Where do Mormons stand on civil rights now? They certainly don't lead up the charge. SU has pointed out that the Jews have reacted to the persecution they have faced, by defending others.

Mormons, on the other hand, have reacted by piling on. Look at the way LDS have treated fLDS. Look at the way LDS goes after gay groups. Look how Mormons vote for far-right conservatives seemingly en bloc.

The idea that there is any kind of "awakening" or "enlightenment" among Mormons regarding race, and everything around race, is complete hogwash.

I agree that we're not progressive as a people on these issues and one can certainly make a good argument that we should be but doesn't Mauss' survey data suggest that we don't tend to suffer from a extreme or obvious racial bias.