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Old 09-11-2016, 10:21 PM   #1
MikeWaters
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Default I'm really down on Taysom Hill

He's officially now the most overrated player in BYU history. And one of the worst passing QBs we have ever had.
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Old 09-12-2016, 03:18 AM   #2
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We have enough data on both these quarterback to know that Mangum is a much better passer. He has a better ratio of touchdowns to interceptions. He throws touchdowns at a higher rate per game. He has a better completion percentage. He averages more yards per attempt. And he has a higher passing efficiency rating.

The one thing that Hill is (was) better at is running. Hill is a running quarterback, who can mix it up with the pass.

Mangum can make reads, and timing throws, and get the ball downfield. Hill struggles with all of this. Hill is your classic throw it at the stationary receiver in front of me passer.

I'm a BYU fan. I like having a QB that is not below average for college football QBs as far as passing.

When Hill was a fresh and soph I actually thought he had NFL potential. But fact is, he has never improved as a passer. They say you can't teach accuracy. And Hill is proving that right. He just doesn't see the windows, or can't get the ball into the windows.

He's the classic basketball player that has ever tool except the ability to shoot a jump shot from beyond 5 feet. He can play D, he can rebound, he can dribble, he can score layups and dunks. But he can't shoot. And he never will be able to.

He is not an NFL prospect. Another bust for BYU in terms of talent vs. outcome.

Now I saw a few flashes in the game against Utah, but my opinion of him is so low, that when he does something basic, like look from one receiver to another, I am cheering and think he can improve and grow.

But we already have the guy who can already do this. He's sitting on the bench.
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Old 09-12-2016, 02:32 PM   #3
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I agree with you. I'm definitely pro-traditional passing QB over runner QB. I probably would have started Charlie Peterson over Doman in 2001 and James Lark over Riley Nelson. So I'm maybe a little extreme there compared to some. I think Bronco under Doman's influence embraced the running QB idea and it would have continued at BYU had he not decided to move on to Virginia. That would have been a mistake because BYU continues to be able to recruit talented passing quarterbacks.

The thing that's frustrating with Hill is that he is a great athlete who actually has a strong enough arm. But he never had to learn accuracy and to rely on his arm. He always had the running ability in his pocket, so the passing never really developed. I've made that comment before only to get disagreed with over on cb, but funny that Ty Detmer is on the record saying basically the same thing during fall camp this year. He was going to try to develop Hill's passing ability. So far he was adequate for a first game against Arizona, and bad against Utah.

Ty Detmer because of his NFL background knows what it takes to make it to the next level and knows Hill needs to be a good pocket passer to make it there even with his running ability. The question is how long do you let Hill have this season. Then again, with his injury history it's possible that makes the decision for us, although you never want to see anyone get hurt.
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Old 09-12-2016, 06:39 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeWaters View Post
We have enough data on both these quarterback to know that Mangum is a much better passer. He has a better ratio of touchdowns to interceptions. He throws touchdowns at a higher rate per game. He has a better completion percentage. He averages more yards per attempt. And he has a higher passing efficiency rating.

The one thing that Hill is (was) better at is running. Hill is a running quarterback, who can mix it up with the pass.

Mangum can make reads, and timing throws, and get the ball downfield. Hill struggles with all of this. Hill is your classic throw it at the stationary receiver in front of me passer.

I'm a BYU fan. I like having a QB that is not below average for college football QBs as far as passing.

When Hill was a fresh and soph I actually thought he had NFL potential. But fact is, he has never improved as a passer. They say you can't teach accuracy. And Hill is proving that right. He just doesn't see the windows, or can't get the ball into the windows.

He's the classic basketball player that has ever tool except the ability to shoot a jump shot from beyond 5 feet. He can play D, he can rebound, he can dribble, he can score layups and dunks. But he can't shoot. And he never will be able to.

He is not an NFL prospect. Another bust for BYU in terms of talent vs. outcome.

Now I saw a few flashes in the game against Utah, but my opinion of him is so low, that when he does something basic, like look from one receiver to another, I am cheering and think he can improve and grow.

But we already have the guy who can already do this. He's sitting on the bench.
I agree.
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Old 09-12-2016, 06:45 PM   #5
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I agree.
Agreed.

Hill is the second most over-hyped and underperforming QB to attend. Heaps would be the first.

Hill has been largely a failure. He will not have defeated the Utes and not engineered any good seasons.
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Old 09-12-2016, 06:53 PM   #6
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Agreed.

Hill is the second most over-hyped and underperforming QB to attend. Heaps would be the first.

Hill has been largely a failure. He will not have defeated the Utes and not engineered any good seasons.
What surprises me is the seemingly large number of BYU fans who seem to think Hill is the greatest BYU QB of all time. They all must be 15-20 years old.
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Old 09-12-2016, 07:03 PM   #7
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What surprises me is the seemingly large number of BYU fans who seem to think Hill is the greatest BYU QB of all time. They all most be 15-20 years old.
He has most of the tools, but simply is a mediocre college passer. Otherwise, his physical tools are there. I would prefer to have Tanner at the helm.
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Old 09-13-2016, 12:07 AM   #8
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He just doesn't have the mental tools. I.e. the ability to see where to put the ball and actually put the ball there.

To use another basketball analogy. He's a point guard who doesn't see the floor well and is a mediocre distributor of the ball.

BYU fans are so hard up for a hero that they see a strong man with a square jaw and they get wood.

Imagine if Mangum had started and played this poorly. CB fans would be willing to burn the world down to get Hill into the game.
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Old 09-13-2016, 01:05 PM   #9
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Actually, Tanner's completion % is about the same (62%). You may be right about the mechanics and reads and such, he certainly has more upside. But based on the most advanced formulas, Taysom yields much more yards when you account for his rushing. Another instance in which I didn't look at the numbers first.
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Old 09-13-2016, 01:53 PM   #10
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I'm looking at career numbers. What are you looking at?

Also, I would wonder if some of Hill's rushing numbers aren't simply just yards he is taking away from running backs.

In other words, more yards doesn't equal more points or more wins, necessarily.

If I take away yards from the RB and give them to the QB it could be a wash.

This article is pretty damning.

http://www.vanquishthefoe.com/2016/9...ange-ty-detmer
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