I was sort of baffled by the black guy that quoted John Taylor

[nikuman]

My mom gave me a putatative transcript of a talk by a Seventy (Mark E. Peterson? Could be, but it was given in the 60s, so maybe not) given in a mission conference that essentially explained race in terms of the War in Heaven. There were three groups of people - follow Christ, fence sitters, oppose Christ. The oppose Christ group were cast out (the "third part"). The follow Christ people are the white folk. The fence sitters are the black/oriental/hispanic folk. But nothing is predetermined - black folk can become white folk in the hereafter if they're good.

I doubt you'd hear anybody say that today. I'm also not sure that the talk was authentic, as the White Horse prophecy comes from far more reliable sources and I'm not exactly on that bandwagon either.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by nikuman

My mom gave me a putatative transcript of a talk by a Seventy (Mark E. Peterson? Could be, but it was given in the 60s, so maybe not) given in a mission conference that essentially explained race in terms of the War in Heaven. There were three groups of people - follow Christ, fence sitters, oppose Christ. The oppose Christ group were cast out (the "third part"). The follow Christ people are the white folk. The fence sitters are the black/oriental/hispanic folk. But nothing is predetermined - black folk can become white folk in the hereafter if they're good.

I doubt you'd hear anybody say that today. I'm also not sure that the talk was authentic, as the White Horse prophecy comes from far more reliable sources and I'm not exactly on that bandwagon either.

Attributed to Alvin Dyer, 1961, mission conference in Norway. One of the most disgusting things I've ever read.

[nikuman]

Originally Posted by jay santos

Attributed to Alvin Dyer, 1961, mission conference in Norway. One of the most disgusting things I've ever read.

Yup, that's it. As soon as you said the name it clicked. The version I read was on a piece of paper that looked like a typewritten letter that had been photocopied seven times, but only after it had been dunked in coffee and folded.

I think my mom still believes that, but her family is originally (meaning WAY back down the line) from the South, so there may be unconscious attitudes that accompany the belief.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by nikuman

Yup, that's it. As soon as you said the name it clicked. The version I read was on a piece of paper that looked like a typewritten letter that had been photocopied seven times, but only after it had been dunked in coffee and folded.

I think my mom still believes that, but her family is originally (meaning WAY back down the line) from the South, so there may be unconscious attitudes that accompany the belief.

I think my grandparents believe it. My mom is coming around. It's hard for her to buck the system she was taught. I call it rubbish. My kids wouldn't believe you if you told them you used to hear this stuff in church. Good example of generational differences with respect to racism in the church (and it's obviously not just an LDS church issue).

[nikuman]

Originally Posted by jay santos

I think my grandparents believe it. My mom is coming around. It's hard for her to buck the system she was taught. I call it rubbish. My kids wouldn't believe you if you told them you used to hear this stuff in church. Good example of generational differences with respect to racism in the church (and it's obviously not just an LDS church issue).

My mom's parents got over it, I think, because they were called to go on a mission from Idaho to North Carolina. Necessity will rid a person of incompatable beliefs in a hurry.

[pelagius]

Originally Posted by nikuman

My mom gave me a putatative transcript of a talk by a Seventy (Mark E. Peterson? Could be, but it was given in the 60s, so maybe not) given in a mission conference that essentially explained race in terms of the War in Heaven. There were three groups of people - follow Christ, fence sitters, oppose Christ. The oppose Christ group were cast out (the "third part"). The follow Christ people are the white folk. The fence sitters are the black/oriental/hispanic folk. But nothing is predetermined - black folk can become white folk in the hereafter if they're good.

I doubt you'd hear anybody say that today. I'm also not sure that the talk was authentic, as the White Horse prophecy comes from far more reliable sources and I'm not exactly on that bandwagon either.

I know this is old, but I wanted to defend Nikuman's Identification of Mark E. Peterson. Although, I believe Jay was right about the Dyer identification in terms of the specific talk Nikuman's is referring to. Still, Peterson had very similar ideas ("Race Problems–As They Affect The Church", Mark E. Petersen August 27th, 1954, The Convention of Teachers of Religion On The College Level, Provo, Utah):

Think of the Negro, cursed as to the Priesthood. Are we prejudiced, against him? Unjustly, sometimes we're accused of having such a prejudice. But what does the mercy of God have for him? This Negro, who in the pre-existence life lived the type of life which justified the Lord in sending him to the earth in the lineage of Cain with a black skin, and possibly being born in darkest Africa - if that Negro is willing when he hears the gospel to accept it, he may have many of the blessings of the gospel. In spite of all he did in the pre-existent life, the Lord is willing, if the Negro accepts the gospel with real, sincere faith, and is really converted, to give him the blessings of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost. If that Negro is faithful all his days, he can and will enter the Celestial Kingdom. He will go there as a servant, but he will get a Celestial resurrection. He will get a place in the celestial glory. He will not go then even with the honorable men of the earth to the Terrestrial glory, nor with the ones spoken of as being without law.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by pelagius

I know this is old, but I wanted to defend Nikuman's Identification of Mark E. Peterson. Although, I believe Jay was right about the Dyer identification in terms of the specific talk Nikuman's is referring to. Still, Peterson had very similar ideas ("Race Problems–As They Affect The Church", Mark E. Petersen August 27th, 1954, The Convention of Teachers of Religion On The College Level, Provo, Utah):

I wonder how much of our authorities' speculation is just that, speculation.

[pelagius]

Can't resist. I know this is unfair but this quote must be shared. From the same talk by Mark E. Petersen:

Now we are generous with the negro. We are willing that the Negro have the highest kind of education. I would be willing to let every Negro drive a Cadillac if they could afford it. I would be willing that they have all the advantages they can get out of life in the world. but let them enjoy these things among themselves. I think the Lord segregated the Negro and who is man to change that segregation? It reminds me of the scripture on marriage, "what God hath joined together, let not man put asunder." Only here we have the reverse of
the thing--what God hath separated, let not man bring together again.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by pelagius

Can't resist. I know this is unfair but this quote must be shared. From the same talk by Mark E. Petersen:

You are burying Petersen so deep that he'll never be resurrected.

[pelagius]

Originally Posted by Archaea

You are burying Petersen so deep that he'll never be resurrected.

I know and I already feel bad about it. I told myself I would stay out of these threads because there is just too much crazy stuff you can bring up. Its not really fair of me and I think I need to go and repent.