Emma didn't keep JS's male courtship pattern in check.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Two very quick examples: ward welfare and ward council meetings do exactly that. That's hardly an exhaustive list, but you said there are "no forums", so I didn't need to be exhaustive.

But there is no equivalent to PEC for women.

I think the penalties are greater for men than women, for not towing the line.

Because men have an expected hierarchy, whereas women in the church in some ways can step out.

Do women play a somewhat marginal role in many respects? Yes, they do.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

But there is no equivalent to PEC for women.

I think the penalties are greater for men than women, for not towing the line.

Because men have an expected hierarchy, whereas women in the church in some ways can step out.

Do women play a somewhat marginal role in many respects? Yes, they do.

It seems the misconception in this thread is about priesthood power. Those who have it = 1st class. Those who don't = 2nd class.

That is an incorrect understanding of how the church functions. Until a person rids themself of this perspective, there's really no point in discussion women vs. men in the church.

[Flystripper]

Originally Posted by Tex

It seems the misconception in this thread is about priesthood power. Those who have it = 1st class. Those who don't = 2nd class.

That is an incorrect understanding of how the church functions. Until a person rids themself of this perspective, there's really no point in discussion women vs. men in the church.

priesthood = authority

Authority exercised = power

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Flystripper

priesthood = authority

Authority exercised = power

Agreed.

Can a woman make any religious decision with authority in Church? No. No power for women.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Agreed.

Can a woman make any religious decision with authority in Church? No. No power for women.

Women have some measure of power over their own organizations, Relief Society, Young Women, and mostly, Primary. But ultimately these all are just appendages to the priesthood, which only men hold. No one denies this.

But that doesn't make women 2nd class citizens, except to those who think of the church in worldly terms. It's a false understanding of how the Lord constructed his church, his authority, and his kingdom.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Tex

No one denies this.

But that doesn't make women 2nd class citizens, except to those who think of the church in worldly terms. It's a false understanding of how the Lord constructed his church, his authority, and his kingdom.

Do you really believe women operate in the hereafter as appendages to me, as you and other mullahs are wont to pontificate?

I don't. I believe the organization of the hereafter will be vastly different than it is here, in our imperfect states. I imagine women exercise similar if not identical authority in the hereafter. How it's constructed I have no idea. However, I imagine Mother in Heaven will kick our butts with bolts of lightening and thunder such that to make Zeus jealous.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Do you really believe women operate in the hereafter as appendages to me, as you and other mullahs are wont to pontificate?

Not appendages to you. Appendages to the priesthood. Gratefully, that is not the same thing.

Originally Posted by Archaea

I don't. I believe the organization of the hereafter will be vastly different than it is here, in our imperfect states. I imagine women exercise similar if not identical authority in the hereafter. How it's constructed I have no idea. However, I imagine Mother in Heaven will kick our butts with bolts of lightening and thunder such that to make Zeus jealous.

Mag wohl sein. We don't know much about what life will be like in the afterlife, but I imagine there will be several things different, and the method of priesthood administration is likely one of them.

[MikeWaters]

Who decides who occupies which callings? While some bishops may ask for suggestions from women, it's men that make the call.

Who decides on speakers and talks? Men.

Who makes final decisions about finances? Men. Despite the fact we have a female accountant in our ward, she will never be the financial clerk? Why?

etc. etc.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by Flystripper

priesthood = authority

Authority exercised = power

priesthood = authority, authority exercised = power, alility to cut the

priesthood holder off=negates all power

[non sequitur]

Originally Posted by Tex

It seems the misconception in this thread is about priesthood power. Those who have it = 1st class. Those who don't = 2nd class.

That is an incorrect understanding of how the church functions. Until a person rids themself of this perspective, there's really no point in discussion women vs. men in the church.

When my ex-wife was called to be the Young Women's President, one of the first meetings she attended was one where they discussed the budgets for the Young Men and the Young Women. During the meeting, she innocently asked why the budget for the Young Men was more than double that of the Young Women, and was told that it was because the activities that the Young Men attended cost more than those of the Young Women. The men in the room seemed genuinely surprised when she wasn't satisfied with that explanation.