Republicans and the church

[fuegote]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

The LDS culture, or was it just American culture?

I will agree it was american culture as a whole.

[Archaea]

If I recall correctly, which given my age may be impossible, when the Church's party was dissolved, equal numbers of Dems and Reps were designated.

A danger IMHO is for us to become too comfortable with our views, not to challenge and to become too smug.

I disagree either party has a monopoly on disagreeable positions. A person or politician can set our his viewpoints regardless of professed party positions.

My guess is, the Church will examine political positions over and over again, once it gains full representation in China or Muslim countries, if ever.

[JohnnyLingo]

i try to figure out what issues that do not allow you to reconcile yourself as a member and be a democrat...

abortion? church is pro-choice last time i checked....

redistribution of wealth in the form of social programs? the church has the best welfare program in the world....

what issues cause one not to be a democrat and a member?

gay marriage might be the only one i can think of. and not the whole democratic party believes in gay marriage.

Never been around this block before, nope.

Abortion... if you define pro-choice as "in cases of rape, incest, and when the health of the other is at risk and only then when serious prayer has been made and counsel from the Lord sought after", then yes.

But that's not generally what pro-choice means, is it?

And if you think that the church's welfare program is exactly what the democratic party is striving for, you're dreaming.

Sorry, but this just demonstrates your ignorance. Were you even around in the 60's? I was. The LDS culture was very racist

True enough, I was not around in the 60's. And I suppose I base my interpretation of how "the LDS culture was" on my grandparents, to be honest. All four of whom are still alive, and all four of whom I have never heard make a racist comment in my life.

Also, it's a bit difficult to pin down what "LDS culture" was during a period of time. Do you mean all members in every part of the world at the time? Do you just mean Utah Mormons? Mormons from the South?

What would you classify "LDS culture" as now?

[SoCalCoug]

The LDS culture, or was it just American culture?

Good question. I can't speak for all of American culture, because I am familiar with only a small part of it.

Here is what I do know:

My grandmother (Utah LDS all her life) used to call us to the dinner table by saying, "Last one to the table is a baby N-----!" There was also some sort of food that she called "N----- toes"

I know that my parents (both life-long LDS) would not have approved had any of my brothers or sisters married someone who is black.

My brother's best friend in high school was black. And although our family lived in a very white area, the only flak I ever heard of him receiving for it was from a kid in the ward, who used to make fun of him for having a black friend.

Two of my roomates in college, both lifelong Utah residents, once exclaimed to me, "You love N---!" (they used a shortened form of the word) when they noted that most of my favorite athletes were black.

So, based on my experience, there is certainly a certain amount of racism associated with LDS (or is it Utah?) culture.

How it compares to other American communities, I can't really say, although I lived in South Carolina for 8 years, and I can't remember many instances of malicious racism (I was on the track team with both white and black kids, and while there were economic and cultural differences - most of the black kids were bussed in, we all seemed to get along just fine).

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by SoCalCoug

Good question. I can't speak for all of American culture, because I am familiar with only a small part of it.

Here is what I do know:

My grandmother (Utah LDS all her life) used to call us to the dinner table by saying, "Last one to the table is a baby N-----!" There was also some sort of food that she called "N----- toes"

I know that my parents (both life-long LDS) would not have approved had any of my brothers or sisters married someone who is black.

My brother's best friend in high school was black. And although our family lived in a very white area, the only flak I ever heard of him receiving for it was from a kid in the ward, who used to make fun of him for having a black friend.

Two of my roomates in college, both lifelong Utah residents, once exclaimed to me, "You love N---!" (they used a shortened form of the word) when they noted that most of my favorite athletes were black.

So, based on my experience, there is certainly a certain amount of racism associated with LDS (or is it Utah?) culture.

How it compares to other American communities, I can't really say, although I lived in South Carolina for 8 years, and I can't remember many instances of malicious racism (I was on the track team with both white and black kids, and while there were economic and cultural differences - most of the black kids were bussed in, we all seemed to get along just fine).

Having lived in Texas, Tennessee and Saudi Arabia (which was with a bunch of Americans from the Gulf Coast), I saw and heard much, much more racism there than I ever did around members there or in Utah.

Now as for what it was like in the 60s, I don't really know, but I do know what it was like from the late 70s on.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

The LDS culture, or was it just American culture?

Both certainly. But we certainly were not on the progressive side of this issue. I recall that just about everybody used the term "nigger" in casual conversation (kind of like grapevine still does). My dad was in the bishopric and he used to tell lots of nigger jokes. Not over the pulpit of course, but just about everywhere else. No one thought a thing of it.

And the DOM biography provides an excellent glimpse into the history of the church during that period with regards to civil rights, racism, and blacks and the priesthood. Pretty shocking to read some of the things that were said by apostles and other church leaders at that time. I was also surprised to learn that the Hotel Utah (owned and operated by the church) did not allow blacks. A black nobel prize winner came to Utah and tried to stay there and they had to call the church president to get permission to let him in. They made a one night exception to the rule.

Yes, this was a reflection of US culture at the time, but by any reasonable standard, the LDS church was quite racist during this period.

[non sequitur]

Originally Posted by homeboy

And the DOM biography provides an excellent glimpse into the history of the church during that period with regards to civil rights, racism, and blacks and the priesthood. Pretty shocking to read some of the things that were said by apostles and other church leaders at that time. I was also surprised to learn that the Hotel Utah (owned and operated by the church) did not allow blacks. A black nobel prize winner came to Utah and tried to stay there and they had to call the church president to get permission to let him in. They made a one night exception to the rule.

Yes, this was a reflection of US culture at the time, but by any reasonable standard, the LDS church was quite racist during this period.

Historically our Church has had its share of racist leaders, starting with Brigham Young. Some of the worst were probably Mark E. Peterson and Ezra Taft Benson. Benson campaigned for George Wallace, for crying out loud. It's tempting to give our past leaders a pass because they simply reflected the attitudes of the times, but that's a copout. It's impossible for me to reconcile how someone can claim to be God's annointed and at the same time be in bed with the likes George Wallace.

The reason people say our Church has a history of racism is because our leaders have a history of racism.

[Archaea]

or racism. It's overreaching to give an unqualified statement that "our leaders", because that implies all. In reality, I would say, it was a select few, but unfortunately American culture and LDS culture were at times inextricably intertwined, affecting policy and procedure from time to time.

[bluegoose]

I wasn't trying to bring an old post back to life, but this one got me thinking - Was I wrong back in 2000 to base my presidential vote on a single issue?

Watching the DNC and RNC, I couldn't help but think we were choosing basically between two morons and that we would do well to vote our VP cantidates into office instead. Al Gore actually gave a good speech and had me until he mentioned abortion/pro-choice.

Fusnik, I also don't see how you can define the churches stance on abortion as being pro-choice.

Others have said that you shouldn't base your presidential vote solely on the basis of abortion, as the president does not have powers to directly affect Row v Wade, etc. This is true, but but he does have something to say about Supreme Court nominations, which considering the past year, can be quite influential with regards to law making and interpretation.

So am I wrong to have voted for a possibly under-qualified Bush simply because Gore stated outright he was in strong support of a womans right to choose?

Damn, this is way too deep to think about on a saturday morning. Curse the end of college football season!!!

[non sequitur]

I don't understand the preoccupation with abortion rights. I can't think of any issue that affects me less on a day to day basis. It doesn't affect my quality of life. It doesn't affect my peronal security. It doesn't affect national security. It's an issue that I just don't care about. If abortion is indeed a sin, then those having abortions will be judged in the next life. Until then, let's concentrate on the issues that really matter.