Tithing Settlement

[bluegoose]

That is a tricky one - one that many of us would probably have been tempted to respond the same way that you did.

First of all, I think that the bishop was out of line for bringing it up. The current comandment is what it is - 10% of your increase. If we were to receive some direction from SLC otherwise, then that is a whole different issue. That is where I think your post would not be unlike the above Polygamy discussion. It would be a huge trial/test of faith if it were asked of us.

It would not be an easy thing for me, and would likely require much consideration, thought and prayer. In the end, if I were actually required/asked to do something like that, I hope that I would have enough faith in the gospel and the leaders of this church to agree. You mentioned certain covenants we enter. Don't forget that there is also that other one about sustaining church leaders.

Of course this is easy for me to say. I'm 5'9" 165, while my current bishop is all of you plus a 3rd grader at 6'4" 300. "....Absolutely bishop. would you also like the keys to the car to go with the house key????"

[non sequitur]

Originally Posted by fuegote

If the order was coming from the prophet...without question. but then again, I'm a "good little sheep."

I remember on my mission we were teaching a guy, and he was ready to get baptized. We hadn't talked to him about tithing yet, and when we did the guy just made some comment to the effect of "Ah, there's the catch. That's what this is all about."

That was the last time we ever saw the guy, and I remember at the time I felt like a used car salesman. I didn't try to convince the guy of the virtues of paying tithing; I just let him go. That was the first time I realized I didn't have a testimony of tithing.

[fuegote]

Mine comes from a testimony of tithing and the temple. We have already covenented to give of our time, etc and everything we can to the building up of the kingdom.

Now if the bishop asked this without the Prophet first mentioning it, that might be a little more difficult, but something like this won't just come from a local authority first. It more than likely will be addressed in a Preisthood session of conference or a special Stake Meeting (or at least something read from the pulpit).

[UtahDan]

Originally Posted by non sequitur

I remember on my mission we were teaching a guy, and he was ready to get baptized. We hadn't talked to him about tithing yet, and when we did the guy just made some comment to the effect of "Ah, there's the catch. That's what this is all about."

That was the last time we ever saw the guy, and I remember at the time I felt like a used car salesman. I didn't try to convince the guy of the virtues of paying tithing; I just let him go. That was the first time I realized I didn't have a testimony of tithing.

I have a testimony of tithing because it is the only area of my life where I can compete with other members of the church in terms of having stories you don't quite believe when you hear other people share them. I have had many experiences like that with tithing and for exactly that reason (also because I hate being a pharisee) I don't share them. For me, this is a principle that I have tested and it simply works. I wish every other principle were as easy as this one is for me. There are others that are MUCH harder and are not so easily tested. That is just one guy's experience FWIW.

[Iluvatar]

Blugoose,

You just touched on the very thing that, after much reflection, I believe caused me to respond to my bishop in the manner that I did.

POLYGAMY! Or, more specifically, polyandry.

Let's substitute for a moment in our discussion the law of consecration with the law of polygamy, and our possessions with our wives.

Imagine the political climate has changed, and we are living voluntarily in a sort of theocracy here in Utah (or wherever else we choose to gather). One day you get a call from the prophet, and he says that he would like for you and your wife to meet him, and he hints that he has something of great importance to discuss with you.

With great excitement you meet him at the prescribed time and place and he proceeds to tell you that because of your righteousness, you are one of the very few chosen to begin living again the sacred law of polygamy. He then says that as a prophet of god, he feels inspired to marry YOUR wife for time and eternity. That she was promised to him before the world was made. That while you are on the earth, you will feed, clothe and love her, but, that in the next life she will belong to the prophet. Moreover, the new marriage will be consummated and the prophet will have sexual rights to her when he wishes.

What would you do?

This isn't bizarre fiction, if you don't believe me, read Todd Comton's book "In Sacred Lonliness" (these marriages are on the church records for anyone to see http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/home.htm). Joseph smith and other church higher-ups married many women who were already currently married to other men. Most were married in secret, without the husband's knowledge. Others he married with the consent of the husband (the husband was usually too afraid to challenge them for fear that Joseph, or God, or both would punish them). These women lived with their original husbands who fed, clothed and loved them. But in the next life (and any other time that the prophet/apostle wanted them), she would belong to the new man.

Really, what would you do if you found out the Bishop/Stake President/General Authority/Prophet had secretly proposed marriage to your wife?

Would you give her up as easily as you would give up your homes/possessions?

I can tell you that my wife is the only reason I care about eternity in the first place. I would never agree to it.

This is probaly why I don't trust our preisthood authorities to the same degree that you lot do.

[tooblue]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I can't imagine the brethren concerned about the expense of activities in our ward.

we are talking cents per head.

In our ward, scouts only meet bimonthly. though I don't think that has anything to do with budget.

If church is a social hub, then make it a social hub. If not, then don't complain when I don't bother to attend any of the activities, other than sunday church meetings.

We are not talking cents per head, we're talking hundreds of thousands of dollars. Brother Packer was the Principle behind the decision, I have read his reasoning as to why, trust me when I say the bretheren were very concerned with how much Wards were spending on activities.

[JohnnyLingo]

This isn't bizarre fiction (if you don't believe me, read Todd Comton's book "In Sacred Lonliness). Joseph smith and other church higher-ups married many women who were already currently married to other men. Most were married in secret, without the husband's knowledge. Others he married with the consent of the husband (the husband was usually too afraid to challenge them for fear that Joseph, or God, or both would punish them). These women lived with their original husbands who fed, clothed and loved them. But in the next life (and any other time that the prophet/apostle wanted them), she would belong to the new man.

I'm sorry, but I need more than "I read this in a book" before I'll believe that.

[tooblue]

We've got a live one here :shock:

Number one, I don't believe your story about the Bishop. Number two, your understanding of Polygamy is incomplete if it is based purely on a book that may or may not have factual documentation to verify what it purports is the 'truth' concerning polygamy.


:roll:

[fuegote]

bingo.

[non sequitur]

Originally Posted by tooblue

We've got a live one here :shock:

Number one, I don't believe your story about the Bishop. Number two, your understanding of Polygamy is incomplete if it is based purely on a book that may or may not have factual documentation to verify what it purports is the 'truth' concerning polygamy.


:roll:

Todd Compton is a respected historian and an active member of the Church. A lot of what he wrote in the book "In Sacred Loneliness" has been taken out of context and used by those attacking the Church. Here is a pretty good link where Todd Compton talks about those that take quotes from his book out of context:

http://www.lds-mormon.com/compton.shtml