Emma didn't keep JS's male courtship pattern in check.

[Goatnapper'96]

Originally Posted by Requiem

Put on a dress and wig and go join a singles ward for three months, then report back.

Indy has nasty legs, very hairy. The sorta guy you look at and wonder how funny it would be to tape his buns together.

I went to church in Coeur'd'Alene a few weeks ago. The ward we attended was followed by the singles ward. I got lost inbetween SS and Priesthood and was unable to find wher I should go so I spent the hour hanging out on a couch watching the rain fall. I was sitting with about 3-4 fairly attractive single chicks and then a married, still frumpy from a recent pregnancy, gal came down checking on Primary classes. Perhaps it was my imagination but I sensed some tension between the two groups. Perhaps the single chicks felt like the married gal was looking down on them, perhaps the married gal was jealous because one could bounce a quarter off the single's gals poopers. I don't know, I do know that women are amazingly complex and their interaction with each other can be interesting.

I recommended they just duke it out in a hot jello wrestling concept, they then forged an ally against a common enemy. I am willing to be the myogenist that will bring our cistern together!

[RC Vikings]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

my wife went to enrichment last month, and past of the lesson was on kegel exercises.

I can't imagine a bunch of women in RS trying to flex their pubococcygeus muscles.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by SoonerCoug

I don't find forty alluring at all. See below:

Preferred partner age remains constant over age among adult men (Bradshaw, Bubier & Sullivan, 1994; Korthase & Trenholme, 1982; Silverthorne & Quinsey, 2000).

It's not the age that matters but the shape of the body.

When I was the Age Group World Championships, I met a fifty something gal, who looked like she was in her early thirties, and I thought wow, fifty isn't necessarily fatal.

Now early thirties is ideal, as they're not too young to have no experience but not too old to be without energy.

It's vitality, shape, libido, and positive attitude, that most women in their forties and beyond don't have that make them unattractive.

[Requiem]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Well, I talk to my wife daily and she expresses her frustrations all the time and she's never opined that she felt like a 2nd class citizen. All I know is that the women in my family have all been very involved and empowered by their church membership and participation.

If you want to isolate your comments to single people being made to feel like 2nd class citizens in the church, I'd be more inclined to believe you, though that applies to men and women.

Indy, I know you are more intelligent than your comment reflects. Your sample consists of a wife and the women in your family? Based on my experiences with a much broader cross section of both married and single LDS women, I can "opine" (you are watching way too much O'Reilly Fox News) the following:

1. The majority of educated (college degree plus post graduate) LDS women are of the opinion the Church, as an institution, unfairly (key word) excludes women from positions of power/influence.
2. The religious practices and customs of the LDS Church literally brainwash girls from a young age forward that we are secondary to males. Examples abound: from Primary and YW through the marriage ceremony.

Women in the church are not allowed to think independently or express their thoughts openly. There are no forums and the penalties too great to take a risk.

[SoonerCoug]

I just sent this to my wife:

This is from a 2003 review article by Vernon Quinsey in the Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences:

Heterosexual men prefer young adult females as sexual partners. The evidence comes from studies of the sexual attractiveness of stimulus persons who vary in age and sex measured by ratings, covertly measured viewing time, and changes in penile tumescence (Freund, Langevin, Cibiri and Zajac, 1973; Harris et al., 1992, 1996; Jankowiak, Hill & Donovan, 1992; Quinsey & Chaplin, 1988a; Quinsey et al., 1975, 1993, 1996; Silverthorne & Quinsey, 2000). Men prefer features that are associated with fertility and health, including symmetrical faces with particular neotenous features (Johnston, 1999) and average weight figures with hip to waist ratios typical of young adult women (Singh, 1993). There is very strong agreement among observers' ratings of the beauty of female faces (Johnston, 1999) and as far as known, these preferences occur across cultures (Bradshaw, Bubier & Sullivan, 1994; Cunningham, Roberts, Barbee, Druen & Wu, 1995; Johnston, 1999; Korthase & Trenholme, 1982; Singh & Luis, 1995). Preferred partner age remains constant over age among adult men (Bradshaw, Bubier & Sullivan, 1994; Korthase & Trenholme, 1982; Silverthorne & Quinsey, 2000).

Heterosexual men are more interested in sexually novel partners than are women, giving rise to what can be termed a "male courtship pattern" characterized by greater male interest in pictures of nudes and erotic movies, desiring a greater number of sexual partners, greater male striving for actual sexual encounters, less discrimination among potential sexual partners in short-term mating contexts, and so forth (for reviews see Buss, 1989; Buss & Schmitt, 1993; and Hamida, Mineka & Bailey, 1998). The ultimate explanation for these features of the male sexual preference system turns on the observation that the principal limiting factor on male reproductive success in ancestral environments was the number of a man's sexual partners, whereas the principal limiting factor on female reproductive success was the resources a woman could obtain to raise the offspring she had, not the number of her sexual partners.

She replied: "Nothing new there. I love you!"

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Requiem

I can "opine" (you are watching way too much O'Reilly Fox News) the following:

1. The majority of educated (college degree plus post graduate) LDS women are of the opinion the Church, as an institution, unfairly (key word) excludes women from positions of power/influence.
2. The religious practices and customs of the LDS Church literally brainwash girls from a young age forward that we are secondary to males. Examples abound: from Primary and YW through the marriage ceremony.

Women in the church are not allowed to think independently or express their thoughts openly. There are no forums and the penalties too great to take a risk.

I'm not certain power is all it's cracked up to be.

On the second issue, I agree women's opinions are excluded, e.g., garment construction, but are there fora for men to express their opinions?

[SoonerCoug]

Originally Posted by Requiem

1. The majority of educated (college degree plus post graduate) LDS women are of the opinion the Church, as an institution, unfairly (key word) excludes women from positions of power/influence.

Yep, my mom went to college and now she wants the priesthood. Sister too. That's what happens when you educate women.

On the other hand, I would like to be liberated from my priesthood responsibilities.

I think we should have women run the Church for awhile, and the men can make crafts and bring people dinner.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by SoonerCoug

Yep, my mom went to college and now she wants the priesthood. Sister too. That's what happens when you educate women.

I doubt it will happen but I'm uncertain how it would change much. I certainly don't want the average relief society president to be my boss. In that case, I'd go on permanent vacation. My whole family weighs less than the average relief society president.

[SoonerCoug]

Originally Posted by Archaea

I doubt it will happen but I'm uncertain how it would change much. I certainly don't want the average relief society president to be my boss. In that case, I'd go on permanent vacation. My whole family weighs less than the average relief society president.

In my old ward, we had a divorced, slender lady as the RS president. Think that was a strategic move by the bishop?

[non sequitur]

Originally Posted by SoonerCoug

This is from a 2003 review article by Vernon Quinsey in the Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences:

Heterosexual men prefer young adult females as sexual partners. The evidence comes from studies of the sexual attractiveness of stimulus persons who vary in age and sex measured by ratings, covertly measured viewing time, and changes in penile tumescence (Freund, Langevin, Cibiri and Zajac, 1973; Harris et al., 1992, 1996; Jankowiak, Hill & Donovan, 1992; Quinsey & Chaplin, 1988a; Quinsey et al., 1975, 1993, 1996; Silverthorne & Quinsey, 2000). Men prefer features that are associated with fertility and health, including symmetrical faces with particular neotenous features (Johnston, 1999) and average weight figures with hip to waist ratios typical of young adult women (Singh, 1993). There is very strong agreement among observers' ratings of the beauty of female faces (Johnston, 1999) and as far as known, these preferences occur across cultures (Bradshaw, Bubier & Sullivan, 1994; Cunningham, Roberts, Barbee, Druen & Wu, 1995; Johnston, 1999; Korthase & Trenholme, 1982; Singh & Luis, 1995). Preferred partner age remains constant over age among adult men (Bradshaw, Bubier & Sullivan, 1994; Korthase & Trenholme, 1982; Silverthorne & Quinsey, 2000).

Heterosexual men are more interested in sexually novel partners than are women, giving rise to what can be termed a "male courtship pattern" characterized by greater male interest in pictures of nudes and erotic movies, desiring a greater number of sexual partners, greater male striving for actual sexual encounters, less discrimination among potential sexual partners in short-term mating contexts, and so forth (for reviews see Buss, 1989; Buss & Schmitt, 1993; and Hamida, Mineka & Bailey, 1998). The ultimate explanation for these features of the male sexual preference system turns on the observation that the principal limiting factor on male reproductive success in ancestral environments was the number of a man's sexual partners, whereas the principal limiting factor on female reproductive success was the resources a woman could obtain to raise the offspring she had, not the number of her sexual partners.

Did they really need a study to come to those conclusions? That men like hot, young babes, and lots of them?