A fascinating point of view from DJ Ross, normally very - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

Archaea · 02-07-2006, 09:50 PM

calm and reserved.

http://www.cougarboard.com/noframes/...tml?id=1744320

http://www.cougarboard.com/noframes/...tml?id=1743851

I do not have the experience, DJ has, in order to confirm or repudiate his perspective, but I respect his usual even-handedness. Thus, I don't throw it out, without further inspection.

tooblue · 02-07-2006, 11:52 PM

To be honest, while I do not live in Europe, and though I do live in, perhaps, the most culturally diverse city on the planet I harbour many similar sentiments as DJ Ross ... one of the two greatest evils on this planet is the extremist Muslim view and treatment of woman which is a direct parallel to pornographic sexual exploitation of woman.

It is not merely Muslim culture that dengrates and debases woman ... We live in overwhelmingly sorrowful times.

myboynoah · 02-08-2006, 01:25 PM

DJ's responses blew me away. I obviously touched a nerve. It's apparent that his experiences have colored his attitude. However, I do take exception to his cursory dismissal of my view and experience.

Frankly I'm surprised to see so many people make the assumption that Islam = Evil. Things are never so simple and Islam is not monolithic, just as Christianity and Buddhism are not. Agreed, the extremist elements color the rest, but I would hope that people would not jump to conclusions so quickly. Some of the responses have been very bigoted. This desire to suddenly throw down and finally go at it is scary.

I have a fair understanding of what is going on in France. I also watch a lot of BBC, so the UK is not that big a mystery. As for Germany, well, I expect Germans will be Germans when it comes to Muslims (conscience tests exclusively for Muslim's seeking citizenship).

Two points. BBC reported this morning on the sentencing of Muslim preacher Abu Hamza al-Masri for seven years for inciting murder and racial hatred. This is not a good guy and we should all be happy he is going to jail. Are British Muslims rioting in the street over this? No. In fact, many, if not most, are happy he is gone. One Muslim official this morning noted that they had warned British authorities years ago about Hamza al-Masri because his radical element had taken over a Mosque in London. These are people who don't want his stain on them.

Second. My kids too attend school with Muslim children. Nothing to report as a result of the recent events. Last year one Iranian girl couldn't shut up about stupid Americans, but the anti-American French teacher was encouraging her. My eldest daughter has a very good friend from Qatar and visits her home on occasion. They are devout Muslims (mother wears the headscarf in public). Theirs is the only home in which we feel assured that nothing untoward will happen (no boys, no drugs, no alcohol). My eldest son has gone to his Egyptian friend's house to play (mother again wears a headscarf). My other son invited his Pakistani friend to his birthday party (mother, no headscarf; this woman was just inviting men to rape her!). These are all very nice people. Perhaps they are just waiting for Osama's signal before they start cutting our throats.

A history of colonization, exploitation, and marginalization has taken its toll on Middle Eastern attitudes towards the West. They look at us with mistrust. Problem is, the world is a small place and we need to live with these people. Best to reach out to and encourage the moderating influences (for example, a secular Turkey) while undercutting and/or attacking the radical elements (for example, Al Qaida, Iran). Emotional wholesale condemnation is folly.

Jeff Lebowski · 02-08-2006, 02:20 PM

Hey myboynoah,

Where do you live in France? What do you do for a living?

Just curious.

myboynoah · 02-08-2006, 02:26 PM

Paris (well, actually, just outside Paris)

I work for the U.S. Government (how ominous), Department of Commerce

I'm here to help U.S. companies export.

SoCalCoug · 02-09-2006, 05:31 AM

I remember telling my wife when Bush invaded Iraq that it may be that we just started on the path that would lead to Armageddon - that things would just escalate in the middle east until it turned into the last great battle. With the increasing violence and the resulting polarization, my fear is looking more possible all the time.

Indy Coug · 02-09-2006, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archaea

calm and reserved.

http://www.cougarboard.com/noframes/...tml?id=1744320

http://www.cougarboard.com/noframes/...tml?id=1743851

I do not have the experience, DJ has, in order to confirm or repudiate his perspective, but I respect his usual even-handedness. Thus, I don't throw it out, without further inspection.

I'm not sure I agree with your characterization of DJ Ross, but that's irrelevant as far as my own personal experience of living in Europe and Saudi Arabia for 20 years. Even living in the predominantly Shiite Eastern Province of Saudi Arabia, I found most Saudis to be moderate in their views and have heard many complain about the radical elements inside and outside the Kingdom.

02-07-2006, 09:50 PM	#1
Archaea Assistant to the Regional Manager Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The Orgasmatron Posts: 24,338	A fascinating point of view from DJ Ross, normally very calm and reserved. http://www.cougarboard.com/noframes/...tml?id=1744320 http://www.cougarboard.com/noframes/...tml?id=1743851 I do not have the experience, DJ has, in order to confirm or repudiate his perspective, but I respect his usual even-handedness. Thus, I don't throw it out, without further inspection. __________________ Ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα

02-08-2006, 01:25 PM	#3
myboynoah Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Memphis freakin' Tennessee!!!!! Posts: 4,530	DJ's responses blew me away. I obviously touched a nerve. It's apparent that his experiences have colored his attitude. However, I do take exception to his cursory dismissal of my view and experience. Frankly I'm surprised to see so many people make the assumption that Islam = Evil. Things are never so simple and Islam is not monolithic, just as Christianity and Buddhism are not. Agreed, the extremist elements color the rest, but I would hope that people would not jump to conclusions so quickly. Some of the responses have been very bigoted. This desire to suddenly throw down and finally go at it is scary. I have a fair understanding of what is going on in France. I also watch a lot of BBC, so the UK is not that big a mystery. As for Germany, well, I expect Germans will be Germans when it comes to Muslims (conscience tests exclusively for Muslim's seeking citizenship). Two points. BBC reported this morning on the sentencing of Muslim preacher Abu Hamza al-Masri for seven years for inciting murder and racial hatred. This is not a good guy and we should all be happy he is going to jail. Are British Muslims rioting in the street over this? No. In fact, many, if not most, are happy he is gone. One Muslim official this morning noted that they had warned British authorities years ago about Hamza al-Masri because his radical element had taken over a Mosque in London. These are people who don't want his stain on them. Second. My kids too attend school with Muslim children. Nothing to report as a result of the recent events. Last year one Iranian girl couldn't shut up about stupid Americans, but the anti-American French teacher was encouraging her. My eldest daughter has a very good friend from Qatar and visits her home on occasion. They are devout Muslims (mother wears the headscarf in public). Theirs is the only home in which we feel assured that nothing untoward will happen (no boys, no drugs, no alcohol). My eldest son has gone to his Egyptian friend's house to play (mother again wears a headscarf). My other son invited his Pakistani friend to his birthday party (mother, no headscarf; this woman was just inviting men to rape her!). These are all very nice people. Perhaps they are just waiting for Osama's signal before they start cutting our throats. A history of colonization, exploitation, and marginalization has taken its toll on Middle Eastern attitudes towards the West. They look at us with mistrust. Problem is, the world is a small place and we need to live with these people. Best to reach out to and encourage the moderating influences (for example, a secular Turkey) while undercutting and/or attacking the radical elements (for example, Al Qaida, Iran). Emotional wholesale condemnation is folly. __________________ Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!! Religion rises inevitably from our apprehension of our own death. To give meaning to meaninglessness is the endless quest of all religion. When death becomes the center of our consciousness, then religion authentically begins. Of all religions that I know, the one that most vehemently and persuasively defies and denies the reality of death is the original Mormonism of the Prophet, Seer and Revelator, Joseph Smith.

02-08-2006, 02:26 PM	#5
myboynoah Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Memphis freakin' Tennessee!!!!! Posts: 4,530	Paris (well, actually, just outside Paris) I work for the U.S. Government (how ominous), Department of Commerce I'm here to help U.S. companies export. __________________ Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!! Religion rises inevitably from our apprehension of our own death. To give meaning to meaninglessness is the endless quest of all religion. When death becomes the center of our consciousness, then religion authentically begins. Of all religions that I know, the one that most vehemently and persuasively defies and denies the reality of death is the original Mormonism of the Prophet, Seer and Revelator, Joseph Smith.

02-09-2006, 05:31 AM	#6
SoCalCoug Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Orange County, California Posts: 3,059	I remember telling my wife when Bush invaded Iraq that it may be that we just started on the path that would lead to Armageddon - that things would just escalate in the middle east until it turned into the last great battle. With the increasing violence and the resulting polarization, my fear is looking more possible all the time. __________________ Get your stinking paws off me, you damned, dirty Yewt! "Now perhaps as I spanked myself screaming out "Kozlowski, say it like you mean it bitch!" might have been out of line, but such was the mood." - Goatnapper "If you want to fatten a pig up to make the pig MORE delicious, you can feed it almost anything. Seriously. The pig is like the car on Back to the Future. You put in garbage, and out comes something magical!" - Cali Coug

02-07-2006, 11:52 PM	#2
tooblue Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 4,016	To be honest, while I do not live in Europe, and though I do live in, perhaps, the most culturally diverse city on the planet I harbour many similar sentiments as DJ Ross ... one of the two greatest evils on this planet is the extremist Muslim view and treatment of woman which is a direct parallel to pornographic sexual exploitation of woman. It is not merely Muslim culture that dengrates and debases woman ... We live in overwhelmingly sorrowful times.

02-08-2006, 02:20 PM	#4
Jeff Lebowski Charon Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In the heart of darkness (Provo) Posts: 9,564	Hey myboynoah, Where do you live in France? What do you do for a living? Just curious.