Andew Sullivan on Bush's similarties to Nazis and others

[nikuman]

Originally Posted by BlueHair

Here are a few things that scare me about Bush.
1. He tries to minimize the Judicial Branch by calling them "activist judges".
2. He minimizes the press by calling them liberal. Apparently he hasn't watched Fox News lately.
3. He is fighting a war against an idea, not a country. We can't even win the war on drugs, what makes him think we can end terror.

I would add a #4 to that: He's tried to make an end run around the constitution in several key respects. I suppose that your #1 above is part of his means to that end - as I envision our particular system of government, the judicial branch is supposed to act as a check on his particular brand of tyranny; he's attempted to render them impotent.

Originally Posted by BlueHair

I know this sounds cold, but September 11th was not that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things. 500,000 american people die each year of cancer. 180,000 of which are caused by tobacco. Why aren't we killing and torturing tobacco farmers and cigarette companies.

I've always thought this, especially as it relates to the relatives of the Ground Zero deceased. Many people lose loved ones in sudden and tragic ways. Get over it. If we allow unfettered emotion to rule our actions, then we are no better, from a standpoint of reasonableness, than the man who screams "Allah Akbar" while setting off his bomb in the midst of a crowd of school kids.

To put the messenger of this in some context, you should know that, not only am I a renounced Republican who is still a staunch conservative, I commute through Ground Zero. I am reminded of what those bastards did every damn day.

[JohnnyLingo]

Bluehair, nikuman, may I be so bold as to ask you to present some alternatives? Complaining is easy.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by Tex

I could regale you with high rhetoric about the American spirit, but I'll just answer simply:

I'm a natural optimist.
I have faith in the American people.
I think our history ratifies that faith.

History shows that as a republican form of government grows longer, the probability of its descent to authoritarianism approaches one.

Before America there were only two republican predecessors, Greece and Rome. In the 100,000 years people have had brains our size republican government has existed in some form less than 1% of that total time span.

[nikuman]

Originally Posted by JohnnyLingo

Bluehair, nikuman, may I be so bold as to ask you to present some alternatives? Complaining is easy.

No, you may not.

[BlueHair]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

History shows that as a republican form of government grows longer, the probability of its descent to authoritarianism approaches one.

Before America there were only two republican predecessors, Greece and Rome. In the 100,000 years people have had brains our size republican government has existed in some form less than 1% of that total time span.

I agree. It's not a matter of if, but a matter of when. My hope is that we can extend the republican form a little longer by our vigilance. We're probably too far down the road to reverse our path though. Most people have already been convinced that giving up liberty is necessary. When the whole wiretapping thing came out, I was fuming to my dad about it. He made the remark that I shouldn't care if I don't have anything to hide. Scary! I think the only solution is to somehow bring the government branches back to balance. I'm not sure how to accomplish that.

[nikuman]

Originally Posted by BlueHair

He made the remark that I shouldn't care if I don't have anything to hide. Scary!

I hear an awful lot of this, and I think it misses the point completely, The origins of this country are rooted in the fact that a significant group of men decided that they were willing to have a major increase in the likelihood of death in exchange for the ability to vote for somebody to tell the government they didn't like a 2 cent tax on tea (more or less). We are now unwilling to accept an infinitely smaller increase in the likelihood of death in exchange for the government staying the hell out of our lives.

[BlueHair]

One more thing. With the technology we have today, privacy rights are unenforceable. There are simply too many ways for the government to spy on you. Privacy was given up long ago. A republic is not possible without individuals having a right to privacy.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

History shows that as a republican form of government grows longer, the probability of its descent to authoritarianism approaches one.

Before America there were only two republican predecessors, Greece and Rome. In the 100,000 years people have had brains our size republican government has existed in some form less than 1% of that total time span.

We will have no way of verifying it, but you could very well be correct. I have no way of knowing next year's Super Bowl champions, much less the fate and destiny of America millennia from now.

I will say only this: while progressive for their day, the Greek and Roman cultures were inferior to the American culture. [Warning, high-toned rhetoric to follow]. America is the greatest nation ever to exist in that 100,000 year history, the only nation to ever have the broader liberty of all men as its primary purpose. If there ever was a culture to have the chance to endure indefinitely, America is it.

Originally Posted by BlueHair

I agree. It's not a matter of if, but a matter of when. My hope is that we can extend the republican form a little longer by our vigilance. We're probably too far down the road to reverse our path though. Most people have already been convinced that giving up liberty is necessary. When the whole wiretapping thing came out, I was fuming to my dad about it. He made the remark that I shouldn't care if I don't have anything to hide. Scary! I think the only solution is to somehow bring the government branches back to balance. I'm not sure how to accomplish that.

I think it's Rush Limbaugh [Leftists can begin frothing at the mouth now] who said that most people's historical perspective begins with the day they were born.

We have been through tougher times as a nation than a few measly wiretaps on calls to suspected foreign terrorists. Get a grip, my friend. The decline of Western civilization is not a forgone conclusion.

[BlueK]

Originally Posted by FMCoug

"It's the economy, stupid." Never was a truer statement made. We have become so fat and lazy that as long as we have good jobs and the S&P 500 keeps going up, most Americans don't give a crap about politics and all of the above. Sad but true.

With a strong economy, authoritarianism would work great in this country today.

Not saying I agree with that, but I think that's where we're at. The Greatest Generations has given way to the most selfish/self-absorbed generation.

Good point. China has become pretty good at following that model.

[BlueK]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

We have infinitely more constitutional mechanisms, safeguards, checks & balances and so forth than 1930 Germany. To assert we're on some slippery slope towards Nazism is ignorant hyperbole at its worst.

What does that really matter when they're ignored? The old Soviet constution "guaranteed" most of the same freedoms that are in our first amendment. I don't think the Bill of Rights would pass today, or certainlly not in the absolutist language it was written in. "Congress shall make no law...," who are we kidding?