1970s Church Pamphlet on Homosexuality

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by MudphudCoug

Do you think you could have lived a celibate life?

I don't know about for 75 years, but I managed to for 24 years. My aunt did for 65 years until her death.

Since when does "easy" make any difference?

[SoonerCoug]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

I don't know about for 75 years, but I managed to for 24 years.

Since when does "easy" make any difference?

You must be proud that you were celibate before puberty.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

I don't know about for 75 years, but I managed to for 24 years.

Since when does "easy" make any difference?

But you knew there would be an end to that, and a gay person would know there is no end. Certainly some might be able to accomplish this, but I doubt it would be without emotional consequence.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by Archaea

But you knew there would be an end to that, and a gay person would know there is no end. Certainly some might be able to accomplish this, but I doubt it would be without emotional consequence.

So what's your point? I haven't argued anything about celibacy being easy.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by SoCalCoug

A couple of points. First, the pamphlet put out by the church in the 1970's, therefore, was apparently way off base.

Apparently. I've not read the pamphlet, so I can't speak to a point-by-point rebuttal, but I'm willing to accept that some of it is inaccurate.

Originally Posted by SoCalCoug

Another is that the teachings and beliefs of the members of the church regarding the importance of temple marriage and the family therefore do not apply to homosexuals. There is therefore a large segment of our population who are not permitted to participate in what is clearly one of the great purposes of our existence - the formation and nurturing of families.

Haven't we been led to believe that voluntary celibacy by heterosexuals is a sin? Or is at least contrary to the will of God (not sure if there's a difference there)?

Therefore, aren't homosexuals essentially given a similar choice as that given to Adam and Eve, that of competing, contradictory commandments?

No, I think this is false logic. There are any number of people unable (or perhaps unwilling) to literally fulfill the commandment to multiply and replenish the earth. I believe God will be merciful to all of them in evaluating what their contribution to that mission was vis-a-vis their ability. This is not like a temple recommend question where you can definitively say whether a person has had a beer or committed adultery.

Who says the doctrine of family "doesn't apply" to people with SSA? I've never heard that. You say a "large segment" is not permitted to participate in one of the "great purposes" of our existence? How's that? Have you discovered a way for two men or two women to procreate with each other?

Your logic is full of bad premises and faulty assumptions, leading you to a flawed conclusion.

[BYU71]

Do you think if a guy is gay, but is celebate and wacks off, he is sinning.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by BYU71

Do you think if a guy is gay, but is celebate and wacks off, he is sinning.

If he's in the temple?

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

So what's your point? I haven't argued anything about celibacy being easy.

I don't have an answer for this quandary, because there is no logical answer for it. Well I posited one once, but it is not popular, so I'll shelve it.

My point is it is easy for us to propose an answer who will not have to endure it.

If you told me, I may not have sex for the rest of my life, my response would be, "I'm outta here." Thanks for playing but no thanks.

[SoonerCoug]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

So what's your point? I haven't argued anything about celibacy being easy.

I just think it's not realistic to expect anyone to be celibate forever, and because of this problem, most gays are effectively excluded from full fellowship in the Church.

I think a pretty high percentage of gay Mormon men get married and have kids. It's a tragedy. A lot of these couples end up getting divorced because the sexual orientation issue is an insurmountable problem.

Anyone ever heard of a celibate gay Mormon bishop in the Church? If celibate gays existed in Mormonism, and if they were in full fellowship, why wouldn't celibate gays be on high councils and in bishoprics?

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Archaea

I don't have an answer for this quandary, because there is no logical answer for it. Well I posited one once, but it is not popular, so I'll shelve it.

My point is it is easy for us to propose an answer who will not have to endure it.

If you told me, I may not have sex for the rest of my life, my response would be, "I'm outta here." Thanks for playing but no thanks.

We do tell you that ... if you're single for your entire life.