New anti-mormon dvd released on 3/25

[Indy Coug]

Mark Tuttle, spokesman for the LDS Church, says the video is inaccurate and hurtful.
"The accusations, innuendo and mischaracterizations portrayed in the video are divisive and hurtful to open dialogue and conversation," Tuttle said. "It does not accurately represent the life of Joseph Smith or the doctrine and history of the church. Either deliberately, or out of ignorance, the video ignores volumes of scholarly work, which address the concerns raised. These criticisms are old and long ago asked and answered."

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,660206841,00.html

[tooblue]

Originally Posted by BarbaraGordon

Well, you can't blame Solon for trying.

I've always kind of thought Mike should provide a character guide for new members. You know? Not unlike when you go to see Romeo and Juliet and they give you a list of the Montagues and Capulets with little notes on each one's role in the play. Except here it could be a list of the believers and the apostates. Or the Cougars and the Utes. Or the superheroes and the mortals, the attorneys and the philosophers...etc. etc.

Hey, now your stealing my idea for my first year course of study!!

[Mormon Red Death]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

Here's an update:

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,660206841,00.html

300,000 copies distributed in Utah alone. Also distributed to selected areas in Washington, California, Idaho, Wyoming, Colorado, Arizona, Texas, Iowa, Illinois, Missouri, Indiana, Ohio, New York, Virginia, Montana, Nevada, Nebraska, Tennessee and Oregon.

That's amazing.

What mormons in michigan dont need to be saved?

[BarbaraGordon]

Okay, here's a real question:

How often does something like this come out? Is it fairly common? Or is this an unusual, targeted effort due to the "threat" of a Mormon presidential candidate?

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by BarbaraGordon

Okay, here's a real question:

How often does something like this come out? Is it fairly common? Or is this an unusual, targeted effort due to the "threat" of a Mormon presidential candidate?

On this scale? Relatively uncommon. But there are plenty of "ministries" who spend a substantial amount of time worrying more about exposing Mormonism than actually trying to become more like Christ.

[YOhio]

Originally Posted by BarbaraGordon

Okay, here's a real question:

How often does something like this come out? Is it fairly common? Or is this an unusual, targeted effort due to the "threat" of a Mormon presidential candidate?

This is rare. No movie has captured the attention of anti-Mormon film-goers since Godmakers and Trapped by the Mormons.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0013705/

[UtahDan]

Originally Posted by RockyBalboa

I'm grateful for my simple nature. I feel bad for people of your ilk that torture themselves needlessly.

You don't know me Rocky. I don't spend any time torturing myself, other than watching Utah's basketball team this year.

I don't begrudge you that fact that you are not capable of grasping subtleties. I think the point you are missing, however, is that we all have different gifts of the spirit. Your gift maybe to have a simple pure faith, but not everyone has that gift. I think you assume that because these things are simple for you that anyone can also choose that forthemselves. This is not so.

Many people have to study things out in their minds. This dichotemy is nowhere more apparent than in the personalities of the leaders of our church over time. There have been been many who had a very simple, pure testimony and others who were more contemplative. Many people need to search for knowledge and engage in that struggle in order to be fulfilled spiritually. I recognize that this is not everyone around here, but you are lumping those who are looking for or have found the door, in with those who are looking for understanding.

To some it is given by the Holy Ghost to know that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and that he was crucified for the sins of the world; to others it is given to believe on their words, that they also might have eternal life, if they continue faithful.....to another it is given the word of knowledge, that all may be taught to be wise and to have knowledge.

I too have a very simple faith when it comes to certain things. The Savior and the atonment for example. Other areas I have to study out to gain an understanding. In yet other areas I have to exercise my faith because they are neither intuitive to me nor does my study of them bring me greater understanding.

Where you are going wrong is in your assumption that everyone can do it the way you do it. My guess is that there are areas where you struggle that I don't and vice versa. You are very abrasive and I'm pretty confident that the feelings that lead you to be that way either affect your relationships or at very least how you feel inside. While I have other issues, those are not issues for me. So can I look at you are say, sheesh Rocky, just stop being who you are, because its easy for me? Why do you needlessly torture yourself with the consequences of these behaviors and feelings? Well to you it isn't needless. You have to struggle through and overcome, but I can't look down my nose at you because something that comes naturally is a struggle for you.

Maybe what I am saying is that if life really is as simple for you as you claim it to be (a claim that I am a least a little suspicious of) then it ought to lead you to feel compassion for those who struggle in the areas that are easy for you, not to ridicule them.

[Solon]

Originally Posted by Mormon Red Death

What mormons in michigan dont need to be saved?

Yeah, I guess they don't care about Mormons in PA either.

300,000 copies is an astounding number.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by Solon

Yeah, I guess they don't care about Mormons in PA either.

I scared them away.

[RockyBalboa]

Originally Posted by UtahDan

You don't know me Rocky. I don't spend any time torturing myself, other than watching Utah's basketball team this year.

I don't begrudge you that fact that you are not capable of grasping subtleties. I think the point you are missing, however, is that we all have different gifts of the spirit. Your gift maybe to have a simple pure faith, but not everyone has that gift. I think you assume that because these things are simple for you that anyone can also choose that forthemselves. This is not so.

Many people have to study things out in their minds. This dichotemy is nowhere more apparent than in the personalities of the leaders of our church over time. There have been been many who had a very simple, pure testimony and others who were more contemplative. Many people need to search for knowledge and engage in that struggle in order to be fulfilled spiritually. I recognize that this is not everyone around here, but you are lumping those who are looking for or have found the door, in with those who are looking for understanding.

To some it is given by the Holy Ghost to know that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and that he was crucified for the sins of the world; to others it is given to believe on their words, that they also might have eternal life, if they continue faithful.....to another it is given the word of knowledge, that all may be taught to be wise and to have knowledge.

I too have a very simple faith when it comes to certain things. The Savior and the atonment for example. Other areas I have to study out to gain an understanding. In yet other areas I have to exercise my faith because they are neither intuitive to me nor does my study of them bring me greater understanding.

Where you are going wrong is in your assumption that everyone can do it the way you do it. My guess is that there are areas where you struggle that I don't and vice versa. You are very abrasive and I'm pretty confident that the feelings that lead you to be that way either affect your relationships or at very least how you feel inside. While I have other issues, those are not issues for me. So can I look at you are say, sheesh Rocky, just stop being who you are, because its easy for me? Why do you needlessly torture yourself with the consequences of these behaviors and feelings? Well to you it isn't needless. You have to struggle through and overcome, but I can't look down my nose at you because something that comes naturally is a struggle for you.

Maybe what I am saying is that if life really is as simple for you as you claim it to be (a claim that I am a least a little suspicious of) then it ought to lead you to feel compassion for those who struggle in the areas that are easy for you, not to ridicule them.

I think it's great that people study things. I, myself do that. While I've said that I think the lengths that some people go to is odd, that's their certainly their prerogative. I've never one single time said I begrudge the search for truth. Not once. I challenge you to find where I've ever said otherwise.

Had you actually read me saying that like I've noted repeatedly you'd get where I'm coming from. I respect an HONEST search for truth so let me make this clear for the bazillionth time...I do not respect a search for truth cloaked with the real intention to bring down and hurt. Let me say that again...I DO NOT RESPECT A SEARCH FOR TRUTH CLOAKED WITH THE REAL INTENTION TO BRING DOWN AND HURT.

Is it maybe of any coincidence to you that time and again those intellectuals who finally do find their testimony usually have it occur through a confirmation of the Holy Ghost? Amazing concept I know. If this happens during the course of search for truth then that is great. However, we've been counseled time and again to be wary of getting side tracked. I find that many of the smartest men I know or read, some of which are on here, rely on their intellect rather than their spirit for the truth. And this is where I think they end up torturing themselves needlessly. In the end does their journey on a slippery slope become more and more subtle before it's too late and they become ensconced in their pride and thus there's no turning back for them. Their "intellect" has destroyed their testimony or begun to do so and if it's pointed out to them, then suddenly the person who points that out is the asshole and the intellectual becomes further and further stubborn in their pride.

Ironically many times this is how the intellectuals end up destroying their testimony rather than enhancing it. They suddenly think they've "seen the light" like SU has. Many times they end up believing that they've outhought others by suddenly believeing they've discovered that the church isn't true.

You can continue to rely on the arm of flesh. I choose to do otherwise, I believe Faith is the most powerful form of truth I can yield in ANY argument against any intellectual, while at the same time knowing full well, that I to, am I not careful can fall at any time. There are also times that certain subjects brought up by others that I just don't see how or where that's relevant to a testimony, rather than another way to try and convince themselves that maybe what they believe isn't true after all. The constant harping on some of the peculiarities in the church does nothing to build up one's testimony, even though you "intellectuals" will argue to the umpteenth degree otherwise.

If you don't believe there are certain individuals on here who harbor this desire to hurt your testimony of the Gospel then you my friend, are a fool. And if that is abrasive to you, then so be it, maybe you'll wake up and finally see what I've been talking about and what I've pointed out, but I doubt, because well...you're an "intellectual", and will seek to defend the "intellectuals" regardless of their obvious intentions.