How old were you when you first learned JS practiced polyandry?

[SteelBlue]

Originally Posted by Tex

... and frankly, I'd like to read his book just so I can fairly speak to his issues. I just don't have the time right now to engage in light or frivolous reading.

Just as I suspected.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Who was speaking the revelations of God?

Joseph Smith.

No reason to believe that he couldn't temper anything received or interpret them differently than intended?

Or was Joseph simply a receiver with no imput into the message?

Ah, so we WILL challenge the prophetic gift! How wonderful. Maybe we should next get on Moses' case for calling himself the meekest man in the world, or John for anonymously referring to himself as the disciple Jesus loved.

Yes, Joseph certainly could have tempered his divine reproval. He certainly did so after he delivered the Book of Lehi to Mrs. Harris, didn't he? Or maybe the missing polyandry revelations have a more creative possibility:

- Maybe God reproved him for his behavior, but told him not to write it down.
- Maybe God told him to be polyandrous, but told him not to write THAT down.
- Maybe *gasp* the hidden revelation calling Joseph to repentance for his philandering ways is kept under careful guard in the Prophet's personal safe!

We could come up with all kinds of useful excuses to try and shoehorn revealed doctrine into our newly conceived Bushman-and/or-Quinn-painted Joseph Smith.

Bottom line is, I don't know how Joseph's prophetic gift worked, or how often he and Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob sat around chatting about the benefits of polyandry. What I do know is, there's nothing I've seen in scripture (which, last I checked, still takes precedence over Richard Bushman) to support the kind of speculation in this thread.

But then again, speculation is the cornerstone of Mormon conspiratorialists, is it not?

[Tex]

Originally Posted by SteelBlue

Just as I suspected.

Because of course, if I had read it, I would agree with you. Naturally.

[fusnik11]

Here's some words from Sarah Pratt:

'Joseph had his plans set on me; Joseph made no secret of them before Bennett, and went so far in his impudence as to make propositions to me in the presence of Bennett, his bosom friend.'

John Bennett quoted Joseph: (possibly miffed Joseph expelled him)

'Sister Pratt, the Lord has given you to me as one of my spiritual wives. I have the blessings of Jacob granted me, as God granted holy men of old, and as I have long looked upon you with favor, and an earnest desire of connubial bliss, I hope you will not repulse of deny me. I hope you do not expose me; for if I suffer, all must suffer; so do not expose me. Will you promise me that you will not do it?'

Orson Pratt, at finding out his wife had been propositioned by Joseph, (there are third party accounts that said Joseph told her to ask other women he had affairs with to verify they had 'relations') he lamented:

'I am a ruined man! My future prospects are blasted! The testimony upon both sides seems to be equal: the one in direct contradiction to the other-how to decide I know now, neither does it matter, for let it be either way, my temporal happiness is gone in this world. If the testimonies of my wife and the others are true, then I have been deceieved for twelve years past-my hopes are blased and gone as it were in a moment-my toils and labors have been in vain. If on the other hand the other tetimonies are true, then my family are ruined forever. Where then is my hope in this world?'

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Tex

Because of course, if I had read it, I would agree with you. Naturally.

Richard Bushman, a member in good standing, and former Columbia professor, did everything he could to dilute it, but he was unable to deny the evidence. You attack him for sensationalizing, when it was just the opposite. He made it sound as boring as possible.

Good ole knee jerk reactions to works never perused by the Mex. By the way, I believe Mohammed's Sword of Islam needs a few more mullahs to behead infidels, you might wish to apply.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by Tex

Because of course, if I had read it, I would agree with you. Naturally.

Tex, someday you are going to read Bushman's book and realize how foolish your above comments are. You have completely mischaracterized it.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by fusnik11

Here's some words from Sarah Pratt:

... If the testimonies of my wife and the others are true, then I have been deceieved for twelve years past-my hopes are blased and gone as it were in a moment-my toils and labors have been in vain. If on the other hand the other tetimonies are true, then my family are ruined forever. Where then is my hope in this world?'

So Orson Pratt did not know for a fact what the truth was regarding this matter, at least based on the above quote given.

[Goatnapper'96]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

Tex, someday you are going to read Bushman's book and realize how foolish your above comments are. You have completely mischaracterized it.

I thought it was a great read, but I would put it in the marginally apologetic category. Especially with his wacky justification of the family treasure seeking trend leading into God preparing the Smiths to accept Joseph's story.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Richard Bushman, a member in good standing, and former Columbia professor, did everything he could to dilute it, but he was unable to deny the evidence. You attack him for sensationalizing, when it was just the opposite. He made it sound as boring as possible.

Last I checked, Joseph Smith was a member in good standing too.

And to be clear (Jeff Lebowski, pay close attention here): I didn't accuse him of sensationalizing. I haven't even read his book. I've accused those in this thread of drawing conclusions that go contrary to what I personally see in the D&C. If someone wants to show me something besides Bushman--something that could even marginally fall under the "revealed" category--to support their claims, I stand ready to receive.

I'll see your mullah, and raise you two apostates. *Tex tosses two blue chips into the pile.*

[Black Diamond Bay]

Originally Posted by fusnik11

Who are the seven who said they knew about polyandry before the age of twenty? And of those, who are the four that said they knew of it as a prepubescent adolescent?

I think you probably misunderstood the question, it's not a question of polygamy, but of polyandry, which is defined as a woman marrying multple men.

Am I to believe Indy and Tex both believe that Joseph did not participate in polyandric relations?

Anyone familiar of the relationship Joseph had with Orson Pratt and his wife Sarah?

I misread it as polygamy, but I was also told that he had wives that were married to other people when I was only 10 or 12. However I've never heard anything about him having sexual relationships with those wives until this discussion. I don't really know what to make of it, but I still believe Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, and I guess that's going to have to be good enough, because I don't think anyone in here really has any answers either.