Is BYU relegated to no higher than 3rd place in the Pac-10 - Page 8 - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

SeattleUte · 12-04-2007, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

Walk me through HOW and WHY either Colorado or Texas would just get up and leave the Big 12. Why would they do that? Just because the Pac 10 asked them to? And why would the Big 12 allow itself to sink to 10 teams? The CCG issue jsut shifts from one conference to another. Colorado is going to say, "to hell with all our tradition in the Big 12....our NC......let's go to the Pac 10, just because..."

As for prestige, keep in mind that amongst the BCS conferences, it is the Pac that is always crying about no respect (I would put the Big Least as the least respected, however). If not for SC's dominance, the Pac would have little to hang its hat on compared to its BCS brethren. You are suggesting that if the Pac is forced to expand, it is somehow going to steal away 2 Big 12 schools?

So your answer is that if the Pac is forced to expand, it will add the awesome pairing of Utah and New Mexico. Or Utah and Hawaii. All because "BYU is weird."

Not smarter. Less dumb.

Look at what is going on around you, my friend. The country is in a metaphysical civil war. A guy who doesn't believe in evolution may win the republican nomination, and Hillary Clinton or Obama will win the democratic nomination. The cultural elites on the coasts have no sense of humor about this, or about Bush being a Jesus freak. BYU is on the other side of the cutural divide from Stanford, etc. Rightly or wrongly they just don't respect BYU. This type of cultural hegemony exists in its purest form in academia. That's where it emanates from. They don't care about TV and football compared to what they think really matters. Most of them don't even like football.

TripletDaddy · 12-04-2007, 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Look at what is going on around you, my friend. The country is in a metaphysical civil war. A guy who doesn't believe in evolution may win the republican nomination, and Hillary Clinton or Obama will win the democratic nomination. The cultural elites on the coasts have no sense of humor about this, or about Bush being a Jesus freak. BYU is on the other side of the cutural divide from Stanford, etc. Rightly or wrongly they just don't respect BYU. This type of cultural hegemony exists in its purest form in academia. That's where it emanates from. They don't care about TV and football compared to what they think really matters. Most of them don't even like football.

Stanford just spent millions to upgrade from their high school football field to a nice, collegiate stadium. Maybe they just started caring about football a few seasons ago.

Also, I believe Stanford ranks somewhere around #1 every year in the Sears Cup rankings for all around athletic performance.

UCLA has the largest intramural program in the country and was voted SI's Top School for all-around athletics.

The Pac 10 is the only conference with 100 NCAA championships.

UCLA has the most mens hoops championships.

SC is tied for the most mens football championships and is second in Heismans.

I think you are right...these Pac 10 people are hyper snobby folks who care more about books than anything else. It is a wonder they even follow sports? Who has time for sports in the Pac 10 when there are cancers to be cured and tombs to be explored in Egypt?

woot · 12-04-2007, 06:01 AM

Triple's point is a good one. If the pac10 is forced to expand, they'll end up with some real shit teams if they don't take BYU, unless they can work out some convoluted deal to steal from the Big 12 and have the Big 12 pick up somebody else. SU's point is also good, as it really seems like the pac10 doesn't want BYU at all. I hope the BCS forces the issue, as I think the pac10 would consider seceding from the union as it were before taking BYU.

TripletDaddy · 12-04-2007, 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woot

Triple's point is a good one. If the pac10 is forced to expand, they'll end up with some real shit teams if they don't take BYU, unless they can work out some convoluted deal to steal from the Big 12 and have the Big 12 pick up somebody else. SU's point is also good, as it really seems like the pac10 doesn't want BYU at all. I hope the BCS forces the issue, as I think the pac10 would consider seceding from the union as it were before taking BYU.

SU's point is possibly valid (since it is based on conjecture, albeit very likely conjecture--I really dont disagree with his sentiments), but completely impractical under the scenario of actual forced expansion.

If forced to expand, hello Cougars and Utes.

TripletDaddy · 12-04-2007, 06:04 AM

Also, it is interesting that the Pac calls itself the "Conference of Champions" as opposed to the "Conference of Scholars" or the "Conference of Academics."

il Padrino Ute · 12-04-2007, 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

Also, it is interesting that the Pac calls itself the "Conference of Champions" as opposed to the "Conference of Scholars" or the "Conference of Academics."

Well, I've heard many folks with BYU ties say that BYU is the Harvard of the west, to the PAC 10 can't claim the scholars bit.

TripletDaddy · 12-04-2007, 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

Well, I've heard many folks with BYU ties say that BYU is the Harvard of the west, to the PAC 10 can't claim the scholars bit.

I havent heard that once since my undergrad days. I think if someone said that to me now with a straight face, I would probably punch them in the nose, or at least flick their earlobe with my middle finger.

If it really is true, someone should notify Cal, Stanford, SC, and UCLA. And about 200K HS senior applicants each year.

il Padrino Ute · 12-04-2007, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

I havent heard that once since my undergrad days. I think if someone said that to me now with a straight face, I would probably punch them in the nose, or at least flick their earlobe with my middle finger.

If it really is true, someone should notify Cal, Stanford, SC, and UCLA. And about 200K HS senior applicants each year.

I can tell that you are not a native of Utah County. Or the state of Utah. Or even a zoob.

Good for you.

Jeff Lebowski · 12-04-2007, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

They would want to expand if a new entrant would make the pie proportionately bigger. For example, if Texas wanted into the Pac 10 the Pac 10 would take Texas in a New York second. That's an extreme example but I think BYU fans are right that BYU from a sports revenue standpoint and a competitiveness standpoint would be an attractive addition to the Pac 10. But while BYU makes the grade on the gridiron and with its undeniable national following, it will always be rejected for cultural reasons whether the Pac 10 admits it or not. I think the "no research" catch phrase will probably be the thing you'll hear.

Before we speculate on all of the reasons why they are "rejecting" BYU, I think we need to make a more compelling case as to why they would want to expand. I think there are plenty of reasons (that have nothing to do with religion, research, etc.) for the PAC-10 to stick with ten teams. BYU and Utah fans like to have this little debate quite regularly, I am not at all convinced that it would be a net plus for them, even if BYU were a secular school with more research.

MikeWaters · 12-04-2007, 02:45 PM

Utah doesn't make much sense to me. A commuter school from a backwater state that hardly puts 40k in the stands during the good years.

The entire population of Utah is less than Dallas. As far as market BYU is about 5 times more important than Utah.

But I guess they do have a cancer center, so Utah has that going for them.

If you follow the money, BCS will go for BYU.

You can do pretty well predicting the future if you follow the money.

12-04-2007, 06:04 AM	#75
TripletDaddy Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 9,483	Also, it is interesting that the Pac calls itself the "Conference of Champions" as opposed to the "Conference of Scholars" or the "Conference of Academics." __________________ Fitter. Happier. More Productive. "Everyone is against me. Everyone is fawning for 3D's attention and defending him." -- SeattleUte

12-04-2007, 06:01 AM	#73
woot Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Denver Posts: 1,502	Triple's point is a good one. If the pac10 is forced to expand, they'll end up with some real shit teams if they don't take BYU, unless they can work out some convoluted deal to steal from the Big 12 and have the Big 12 pick up somebody else. SU's point is also good, as it really seems like the pac10 doesn't want BYU at all. I hope the BCS forces the issue, as I think the pac10 would consider seceding from the union as it were before taking BYU.

12-04-2007, 02:45 PM	#80
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	Utah doesn't make much sense to me. A commuter school from a backwater state that hardly puts 40k in the stands during the good years. The entire population of Utah is less than Dallas. As far as market BYU is about 5 times more important than Utah. But I guess they do have a cancer center, so Utah has that going for them. If you follow the money, BCS will go for BYU. You can do pretty well predicting the future if you follow the money.