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MikeWaters · 04-28-2008, 03:11 PM

Brigham Young could have ambushed the army as it came through the mountain pass/canyon into SLC.

A thousand long-guns from elevation would have done some damage.

Also, the line about damage to the printing press (and imply that it was morally worse violence than the murder of Joseph Smith) is a line that I expect from Hyrum and Su.

BYU71 · 04-28-2008, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Brigham Young could have ambushed the army as it came through the mountain pass/canyon into SLC.

A thousand long-guns from elevation would have done some damage.

Also, the line about damage to the printing press (and imply that it was morally worse violence than the murder of Joseph Smith) is a line that I expect from Hyrum and Su.

Mike, you don't think if Brigham Young thought he could take out the Army and the consequences wouldn't have eventually been the destruction of the church, he wouldn't have?

I see nothing wrong with the theory that has been put forth. What is wrong with the brethern being thoughtful people who calculated the odds?

MikeWaters · 04-28-2008, 03:17 PM

I don't have a problem with that theory, per se.

I have a problem with the idea that BY as full of bloodlust and only fear for his own skin and power prevented him from rampaging murder.

MikeWaters · 04-28-2008, 03:21 PM

Evidence of the Mormons' non-violence is that Porter Rockwell is among the strongest evidence by those who claim Mormons were violent.

Rockwell is WEAK evidence.

BYU71 · 04-28-2008, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I don't have a problem with that theory, per se.

I have a problem with the idea that BY as full of bloodlust and only fear for his own skin and power prevented him from rampaging murder.

I would agree with you there. I guess I missed where someone was accusing him of that in this thread.

MikeWaters · 04-28-2008, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KiteRider

Who said anything about Brigham being full of bloodlust? My argument about early Mormon attitudes about violence is centered around expediency and survival.
Again, this is my 'thesis:'
Early Mormon attitudes about violence are a better reflection of that period's larger societal attitudes about violence rather than anything unique to Mormon doctrine or culture.

And just as I didn't say that Brigham was full of "Bloodlust," I also never morally equated the murder of Joseph with the destruction of the Expositor. Had Joseph known that the Expositor fiasco would start a chain of events that would lead to his assassination, I bet he would have acted more expediently.

You had to bold and increase text size. I win.

MikeWaters · 04-28-2008, 03:59 PM

actually since you agreed with me, I can't say I win. Unless I convinced you to agree with me, which I doubt.

SeattleUte · 04-28-2008, 09:29 PM

Bastards. They haven't published my comment. Too bitter? I tried to tone it down. They published every one of the ones I gave them on War and Peace.

SeattleUte · 05-01-2008, 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Bastards. They haven't published my comment. Too bitter? I tried to tone it down. They published every one of the ones I gave them on War and Peace.

I take it back. They published it.

04-28-2008, 09:29 PM	#78
SeattleUte fairlds.org Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 10,665	Bastards. They haven't published my comment. Too bitter? I tried to tone it down. They published every one of the ones I gave them on War and Peace. __________________ Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be. —Paul Auster

04-28-2008, 03:11 PM	#71
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	Brigham Young could have ambushed the army as it came through the mountain pass/canyon into SLC. A thousand long-guns from elevation would have done some damage. Also, the line about damage to the printing press (and imply that it was morally worse violence than the murder of Joseph Smith) is a line that I expect from Hyrum and Su.

04-28-2008, 03:17 PM	#73
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	I don't have a problem with that theory, per se. I have a problem with the idea that BY as full of bloodlust and only fear for his own skin and power prevented him from rampaging murder.

04-28-2008, 03:21 PM	#74
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	Evidence of the Mormons' non-violence is that Porter Rockwell is among the strongest evidence by those who claim Mormons were violent. Rockwell is WEAK evidence.

04-28-2008, 03:59 PM	#77
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	actually since you agreed with me, I can't say I win. Unless I convinced you to agree with me, which I doubt.