What's the most evil/controversial thing the Prophet has asked you to do?

[woot]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Never?

Read Isaiah, Deutero Isaiah or Trito Isaiah, and tell, historically, prophets of old never linked political views with salvation?

Are you willing to state that as a categorical, or in just this instance?

If you're not willing to make it a categorical imperative, then you're picking and choosing which issues are important to you.

As a general rule, I believe the Church will be well-served to avoid being involved in politics at all. However, I'm uncomfortable with the categorical proscription.

The federal government doesn't identify the LDS church as speaking for God.
Even if God wants prophets to opine on political issues, it's still unethical, so I think a categorical "just don't" is fine. This wouldn't even be a problem if there weren't so many people willing to believe/do whatever their religious leaders say.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by woot

The federal government doesn't identify the LDS church as speaking for God.
Even if God wants prophets to opine on political issues, it's still unethical, so I think a categorical "just don't" is fine. This wouldn't even be a problem if there weren't so many people willing to believe/do whatever their religious leaders say.

Your argument is that religious people listening to leaders giving a political opinion is bad, but economic leaders, such as union leaders asking for a political stance are good.

Misguidance comes in many forms. We are wont to identify the misdeeds of religion, but how soon we forget its successes.

[woot]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Your argument is that religious people listening to leaders giving a political opinion is bad, but economic leaders, such as union leaders asking for a political stance are good.

Misguidance comes in many forms. We are wont to identify the misdeeds of religion, but how soon we forget its successes.

I've not said a word about unions. I'd be happy to hear of any successes you attribute to religion.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by woot

I've not said a word about unions. I'd be happy to hear of any successes you attribute to religion.

Did the idea of a university originate out of any religious setting?

Did any of the black churches contribute significantly to Civil Rights?

Some religious conscience contributed to the pacifist movement of the sixties. Remeber the conscientious objector status?

Your position reminds of Bertrand Russell. http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/russell2.htm

[woot]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Did the idea of a university originate out of any religious setting?

Was there any other setting? You need to distinguish between things caused by religion and thing done either in spite of religion or just independent of religion.

Did any of the black churches contribute significantly to Civil Rights?

And how many religious bigots were quoting the Bible in support of slavery? See above.

Some religious conscience contributed to the pacifist movement of the sixties. Remeber the conscientious objector status?

Was religion necessary for that? Can causation really be proven in that case? If anything it was discriminatory, as I understand that one had to belong to a pacifist religion in order to receive conscientious objector status, although I'm not sure.

Your position reminds of Bertrand Russell. http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/russell2.htm

I'm honored to be compared to such a great thinker.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by woot

Was there any other setting? You need to distinguish between things caused by religion and thing done either in spite of religion or just independent of religion.



And how many religious bigots were quoting the Bible in support of slavery? See above.



Was religion necessary for that? Can causation really be proven in that case? If anything it was discriminatory, as I understand that one had to belong to a pacifist religion in order to receive conscientious objector status, although I'm not sure.



I'm honored to be compared to such a great thinker.

Talking to you is akin to talking to Tex, only in reverse.

[woot]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Talking to you is akin to talking to Tex, only in reverse.

I thought people didn't like Tex because he appeals to authority and doesn't back up his arguments with logic. I don't know if that's true, but if I'm the opposite of that stereotype, then I accept your compliment.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by woot

I thought people didn't like Tex because he appeals to authority and doesn't back up his arguments with logic. I don't know if that's true, but if I'm the opposite of that stereotype, then I accept your compliment.

You ignore logic and stick to your "religions is always bad and contributes nothing" no matter the argument.

[woot]

Originally Posted by Archaea

You ignore logic and stick to your "religions is always bad and contributes nothing" no matter the argument.

You'd like to think that, but it seems the evidence is on my side, which is of course why I took this position to begin with. Why not just present an argument instead of resorting to ad hom? Are you conceding the point?

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by woot

Was there any other setting? You need to distinguish between things caused by religion and thing done either in spite of religion or just independent of religion.



And how many religious bigots were quoting the Bible in support of slavery? See above.



Was religion necessary for that? Can causation really be proven in that case? If anything it was discriminatory, as I understand that one had to belong to a pacifist religion in order to receive conscientious objector status, although I'm not sure.



I'm honored to be compared to such a great thinker.

The point you're ignoring is that religion is NOT monolithic, and the origins of most "universities" bear some relation to the religion of the culture, due to the need for authority and financial contributions from the ruling elite.

You ignore the black churches' contribution by appealing to non-religious bigotry. IOW, you ignore the valid example I cited.