The reason I am so depressed about BYU - Page 7 - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

BYU71 · 10-24-2007, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay santos

I think if you dug into it, you'd find this idea is overstated. For example, 2006 Boise State was slightly penalized in the MOV polls compared to BCS computer models, but still was penalized more by human voters.

Boise State was undefeated, so according to computers you can't do any better than that as far as outcomes to games. But when you bring in MOV, they moved behind Ohio State, who was also undefeated but with greater MOV, and teams like Louisville, Texas, Hawaii, BYU, Clemson and LSU narrowed the gap from their winning percentages because their MOV to winning percentage ratio comparison was greater.

Give me UCLA, ND, USC, Washington, Penn ST. Texas, Miami, FSU and those types in Cougar Stadium twice a year over a shot every 5- 10 years of going
to the Fiesta Bowl, sitting high in the end zone, and watching us play a Pittsburg.

Of course I have season tickets at LES, so I may have a bias here.

Indy Coug · 10-24-2007, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BYU71

Give me ... Washington, ..., FSU and those types in Cougar Stadium twice a year ...

Check out 2010, although only one is in LES that year.

http://www.cougarboard.com/future_schedule.html

Archaea · 10-24-2007, 06:03 PM

Not an unreasonable attitude.

If I could have a bunch of fun games, with some good rankings and constant bowl games, I'd sacrifice that for one day in the sun ever ten years.

DJRoss · 10-24-2007, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BYU71

Again my question are you in favor of dummying down the schedule to get to a BCS game?? How do you feel about the fans who buy season tickets getting ripped off. Would you be in favor of lowering ticket prices.

Why should people who pay $500 to $3000 a year in ticket prices plus Cougar dues pay for everyones chance to see a BCS bowl game, maybe??

I don't think over the long haul screwing your customers for a big pay day works.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay santos

False. What MWC needs is good teams.

What SOS calculation are you talking about? Only place SOS is measured right now is within each computer's calculation. And I can guarantee you none of the computers use formula like this. Especially treating D1A and D1AA records apples to apples.

Can you back this up with any actual data? Can you show me where teams over the past few years have manipulated weak SOS to their advantage?

Sure, Here is the Big east scheduling since 2005

Cinci
2005
Eastern Michigan
Penn St
Western Carolina
Maimi OH
2006
Eastern Kentucky
Ohio St.
Miami OH
Akron OH

2007
Southeast Missouri St
Oregon State
Miami OH
Marshall
San Diego State

UCONN
2005
Buffalo
Liberty
Georgia Tech
Army
2006
Rhode Island
Wake Forest
Indiana
Navy
Army
2007
Duke
Maine
Temple
Akron
Virginia

Louisville
2005
Kentucky
Oregon State
Florida Atlantic
North Carolina
2006
Kentucky
Temple
Miami FL
Kansas St
Middle Tennessee
2007
Murray State
Middle Tennessee
Kentucky
NCState
Utah

Pittsburgh
2005
Notre Dame
Ohio
Nebraska
Youngstown St
2006
Virginia
Michigan St
Citadel
Toldeo
Central Florida
2007
Eastern Michigan
Grambling State
Michigan St
Virginia
Navy

Rutgers
2005
Illinois
Villanova
Buffalo
Navy
2006
North Carolina
Illinois
Ohio
Howard
Navy
2007
Buffalo
Navy
Norfolk State
Maryland
Army

South Florida
2005
Penn St
Florida A&M
Central Florida
NC State
2006
McNeese State
Florida International
Central Florida
Kansas
North Carolina
2007
Elon
Auburn
North Carolina
Florida Atlantic
Central Florida

Syracuse
2005
Buffalo
Virginia
Florida St
Notre Dame
2006
Wake Forest
Iowa
Illinois
Miami OH
Wyoming
2007
Washington
Iowa
Illinois
Miami OH
Buffalo

West Virginia
2005
Wofford
Maryland
East Carolina
Virginia Tech
2006
Marshall
Eastern Washington
Maryland
East Carolina
Mississippi St
2007
Western Michigan
Marshall
Maryland
East Carolina
Mississippi St

You can see that if the MWC teams had scheduled the same teams that the OOC records during these seasons would most likely equal that of the Big East. The Big East took it one step further in that they took educational guesses as to which programs would be the strongest in the conference and than for the following year schedules these teams to meet each other as late in the season as possible thus providing the strongest possibility for them to have ranked teams.

Regardless of schedule if your team wins 10 games in a year it will be ranked. If you pull this off two seasons in a row, than you begin showing up in the preseason rankings as a top team. With that extra boost. Who cares if your SOS is in the toilet. Just keep winning your games. The computers took the MOV out of the system initially to protect the status quo from the likes of Boise State who beats up on "inferior" talent. Lo and behold this thing also allows us to cheapen our schedules to ensure that we are crystal clean come conference season and than we maximize the number of ranked teams as well as the number of BCS bowl possibilities.

How many Big East teams were pre-seasoned ranked this year? West Virginia was ranked 6th before a coin was flipped. Louisville was ranked 11th, Rutgers was ranked 16th, and South Florida was getting votes.

You win 10 games one season even with a crap schedule and you are ranked in the top 25. If you have decent amount of returning talent especially at QB, you will get ranked before the season starts even it is only votes. You blaze through your crap schedule featuring bottom feeder MAC teams, Sun Belt fodder and of course the obligatory warm up slumming in the Div IAA's. All you need to complete the illusion is beat a sorry excuse ACC, Big Ten or Big XII program like Baylor, Duke or Northwestern and the deal is done. You are sitting at 4-0 and since your pre seasoned ranked, you can only go up as long as you keep winning. Now flex your scheduling every year so you can make sure the strong horses are always the last to meet. It won't be perfect since there is always a Cinci that might surprise early. But it is good enough to salt the rankings.

Judge Smails · 10-24-2007, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BYU71

Here is how the MWC works. BYU dominates it and schedules 3 BCS teams a year. One lower rung type. Mid rung type. Top rung type. Schedule USU.

That works for getting us the type of national recognition Boise State has gotten.

I live in Boise and I can't name a year in which BSU has scheduled 2, let alone 3 BCS opponents. Add that to a conference that is far worse than the MWC, dominate it for a few years, win ONE big game, and wala - national recognition.

Follow up - one year later lose to the only BCS team on your schedule, slip completely off the radar, with no opportunity remaining to impress anyone.

Now, I agree with your scheduling plan. And I agree it is a viable path to some national recognition, if that's what you crave (this whole quest for "national respect" seems to me like some kind of insecure pride, but that's another conversation), but to cite Boise St as evidence of your plan is foolhardy at best.

Indy Coug · 10-24-2007, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judge Smails

I live in Boise and I can't name a year in which BSU has scheduled 2, let alone 3 BCS opponents. Add that to a conference that is far worse than the MWC, dominate it for a few years, win ONE big game, and wala - national recognition.

Follow up - one year later lose to the only BCS team on your schedule, slip completely off the radar, with no opportunity remaining to impress anyone.

Now, I agree with your scheduling plan. And I agree it is a viable path to some national recognition, if that's what you crave (this whole quest for "national respect" seems to me like some kind of insecure pride, but that's another conversation), but to cite Boise St as evidence of your plan is foolhardy at best.

Agreed. The Boise State model is the anti-BYU71.

MikeWaters · 10-24-2007, 06:44 PM

Boise State is like the one black kid that gets invited to the popular kids' parties. He thinks he is cool, but he doesn't realize that he is considered a mascot.

BYU used to occupy that role to some extent.

With BYU and ESPN separating ways, BYU will never occupy that role again. No popular kids' parties for BYU. BYU from now on will be the "best team you haven't heard of this year".

Flystripper · 10-24-2007, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Judge Smails

I live in Boise and I can't name a year in which BSU has scheduled 2, let alone 3 BCS opponents. Add that to a conference that is far worse than the MWC, dominate it for a few years, win ONE big game, and wala - national recognition.

Follow up - one year later lose to the only BCS team on your schedule, slip completely off the radar, with no opportunity remaining to impress anyone.

Now, I agree with your scheduling plan. And I agree it is a viable path to some national recognition, if that's what you crave (this whole quest for "national respect" seems to me like some kind of insecure pride, but that's another conversation), but to cite Boise St as evidence of your plan is foolhardy at best.

that "far worse conference" has owned the MWC over the last 5 years.

myboynoah · 10-24-2007, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Boise State is like the one black kid that gets invited to the popular kids' parties. He thinks he is cool, but he doesn't realize that he is considered a mascot.

BYU used to occupy that role to some extent.

With BYU and ESPN separating ways, BYU will never occupy that role again. No popular kids' parties for BYU. BYU from now on will be the "best team you haven't heard of this year".

So, is BYU a black kid too?

Indy Coug · 10-24-2007, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flystripper

that "far worse conference" has owned the MWC over the last 5 years.

The MWC is 26-23 against the WAC over the last 5 years. I don't have the stats for 2007 handy.

10-24-2007, 06:03 PM	#63
Archaea Assistant to the Regional Manager Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The Orgasmatron Posts: 24,338	Not an unreasonable attitude. If I could have a bunch of fun games, with some good rankings and constant bowl games, I'd sacrifice that for one day in the sun ever ten years. __________________ Ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα

10-24-2007, 06:44 PM	#67
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	Boise State is like the one black kid that gets invited to the popular kids' parties. He thinks he is cool, but he doesn't realize that he is considered a mascot. BYU used to occupy that role to some extent. With BYU and ESPN separating ways, BYU will never occupy that role again. No popular kids' parties for BYU. BYU from now on will be the "best team you haven't heard of this year".