Bob Millet on grace

[Taq Man]

Originally Posted by RockyBalboa

I haven't said one thing about towing the Mormon Party line...you're making that up and translating that all by yourself. Obviously you're very insecure about your own feelings towards the church and when a kindred spirit like Aaron comes along,,,well your attraction to him is palpable.

I don't care if you like me or not. I'm not here for you to admire and I'm not claiming any moral superiority here either.

I'm simply calling it like it is...and I really don't care if you like that or not.

Aaron is a douche bag, and if you want to be his Human Massengill and clean him up for us,,,then by all means, continue.

I will grant you that his tactics in the past have been suspect. However, His comments in this thread were appropriate to the topic and were not drive by anti-mormonism.

Your comments to him betray the real insecurities here.

I don't know you at all and from your reaction to Shaf and your subsequent comments I'm pretty sure I would not care to.

I'm no born again Christian. In fact I think they are as full of it as Mormons. However, I hate rude behavior in a grown man, and you sir were rude, or to put it in lay mans terms...

a Dick.

[All-American]

Originally Posted by RockyBalboa

Yep. I have a history of telling it like it is. I'm not gonna tone it down just to appease him.

But I will to appease you since I like you.

Appreciate it. Thanks.

[RockyBalboa]

Originally Posted by Taq Man

I will grant you that his tactics in the past have been suspect. However, His comments in this thread were appropriate to the topic and were not drive by anti-mormonism.

Your comments to him betray the real insecurities here.

I don't know you at all and from your reaction to Shaf and your subsequent comments I'm pretty sure I would not care to.

I'm no born again Christian. In fact I think they are as full of it as Mormons. However, I hate rude behavior in a grown man, and you sir were rude, or to put it in lay mans terms...

a Dick.

You seem to be missing the part where I don't give a ratsass whether you like me or not or whether you'd like to get to know me, but thanks for clarifying that you do indeed like to douche with the best of them.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by Taq Man

I'm no born again Christian. In fact I think they are as full of it as Mormons.

So just for future reference, you think Mormonism is bunk? I simply ask to be able to understand how to read your future comments.

[Taq Man]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

So just for future reference, you think Mormonism is bunk? I simply ask to be able to understand how to read your future comments.

I wouldn't say the door is completly shut but its 98% there.

[UtahDan]

Originally Posted by RockyBalboa

You seem to be missing the part where I don't give a ratsass whether you like me or not or whether you'd like to get to know me, but thanks for clarifying that you do indeed like to douche with the best of them.

I'm just waiting for the "thunk" which will mean that Tag Man has become the latest to drop unconscious from beating his head against this particular wall.

[Taq Man]

Originally Posted by RockyBalboa

You seem to be missing the part where I don't give a ratsass whether you like me or not or whether you'd like to get to know me, but thanks for clarifying that you do indeed like to douche with the best of them.

I'm a douche, your a Dick,

Done??????????????

[aaronshaf]

I believe people will be identified as sheep or goats (cf. Matthew 25) in the final judgment according to their works. That isn't the same though as saying that one is granted entrance into the presence of the Father on any basis of their personal righteousness. With regard to the granting of eternal life, works play an evidentiary role, not a meritorious role. If a person lives their life in unrepentant sin then it shows (i.e. is evidence) that they never trusted Christ to receive free and immediate forgiveness of sins.

And just for the record, I think y'all are a hoot. If you ever get together for a Utah social, I'd love to tag along.

[aaronshaf]

A few months back I came across this chapter by LDS apostle and popular educator John Widtsoe. I'd love to know what you all think of it:

We must pay the price for whatever we obtain. If we do something, we receive something; if we do nothing, we receive nothing. That is a universal principle, valid from economics to religion, on earth or in heaven. The price may not always be great, but it must be paid. Only as the price has been paid can we claim to own our possessions. Only as the price is paid, and to that degree, can we expect the joy which is the objective of existence. Paul says that Jesus bought us “with a price.”

To pay the price means self-effort. But, by that price we gain increasing strength. There is no gain of inward power, if we live wholly on the bounty of others. They who do so become enfeebled, and ultimately valueless to themselves and to society. They are drones in the hive, who have no claim on the honey gathered by others. That could well be written on the souls of men.

They who set out deliberately to avoid the payment of the price, are agents of the evil one. His plan has always been to move men as pawns towards unearned satisfactions; to loot and steal from the hard-earned store of others. That plan spells retrogression, and eventual dissipation of all possessions, and the cessation of life in our universe. There can be nothing worse.

The principle of paying the price is, of course, merely a phase of the universal law of cause and effect, a law which is in full operation in the material and the spiritual domain. Every occurrence has a cause behind it. If the lightnings play in the heavens, or a hoop rolls down the hill, or a brick be lifted to the top of the wall-it is the effect of some cause. Take causes away from nature and life, and there would be no effects. A stagnant universe would be reduced to flat inactivity and ultimate death…

In reality, this doctrine means that we earn and must earn what we get. Salvation must be earned. The plan of salvation is of value to us only as we conform, actively, to its requirements. It has been so throughout the eternities of existence. The spirit of man, seeking progress, has toiled and striven to rise towards his high destiny, the likeness of God. The privilege to come on earth was earned by him. Earth-life was not forced upon him, nor did he receive it as a gift. That doctrine lifts man into the position of kingship. He has labored and won. His battle has resulted in victory. He has the right to walk among kings. This is one of the great doctrines, often forgotten, laid down in the restored gospel of Jesus Christ.

The doctrine of paying the price, or earning what we receive, does not imply hardship. On the contrary, the gospel teaches clearly that we are to have joy here on earth. “Men are, that they might have joy.” True, we are surrounded by forces which we must overcome; but man has been given power to overcome them, and to make them his servants. Increased power and courage come with every new subjection of opposing forces. The very act of conquest gives joy. Men, who set out fearlessly to pay the price, labor in the light of the sun, and find abiding joy in their tasks.

The common teaching of Christian sects has been that man is born to sorrow and suffering; and that he must wait for joy until death has brought him into that other, spiritual, world. This has been an evil doctrine. When a person believes that he must walk through life in sorrow, his eyes are likely to be on the ground. Discontent and fear are in his heart. He is tempted to forget to pay the price. Labor and toil are looked upon more and more with distaste. They become punishments imposed for some previous, forgotten sin. Idleness and sensuous hours, played up brightly by the evil one, rise in desirability. He surrenders to the appetites of the flesh. Or, he falls into a state of hopeful faith, dreaming of some poorly described future, in another world. This doctrine, which destroys the normality of life, has caused untold human misery, of body and mind.

On the other hand, the man who believes that he is born to find joy, but must win it by earning it, walks through life with head up, and a steady, fearless heart. To him labor brings joy; idleness begets sorrow. He feels that to overcome obstacles, to resist evil, will bring happiness on earth, and eternal joy hereafter. They who so believe cast off the cares of life. At the end of the day they take the deep breath of satisfaction. Their sleep is sound, and they awake refreshed.

The difference between the two doctrines is that between truth and untruth, between light and darkness. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is in full opposition to any doctrine which does not require man, and provide him with the means, to earn his way daily, to earthly and heavenly joys.

[RockyBalboa]

Originally Posted by Taq Man

I'm a douche, your a Dick,

Done??????????????

Nope.

See your problem will be solved once you stop being wrong about your thoughts on bumjugging Aaron.