Question regarding church discipline

[SoonerCoug]

Originally Posted by Tex

I don't know if this directed at me, but I hope that's not what you think I meant.

The church is constantly revising policy and restructuring programs. They don't do it willy-nilly, but they DO do it. I didn't mean to convey the idea that the system is without flaw, only that it is a divine organization based on true principles and that a better understanding of those principles helps one smooth out the flaws.

I can agree with you there, and no--it wasn't directed at you.

My major concern is members of the Church who have bad experiences, through no fault of their own.

[SoonerCoug]

Here is another example:

I go in for a regular yearly interview with the bishop. I'm 17 years old. We go through the interview, and apparently I passed the test.

Next, we continue onto a discussion of my parents. Bishop begins asking me about my father. He says that he has heard by word of mouth that my father is having major chastity problems, but that my father does not know that he (bishop) knows. He asks me to fill him in on the subject.

I break down in tears. I proceed to tell him that he must be confused because my father's problems have nothing to do with chastity. Instead, his problems actually have much more to do with his health, and that he has been diagnosed with a terrible disease and is in horrible pain and is suffering terribly. (This was essentially a massive exaggeration to shut the Bishop up.)

I never told my mom or dad about the situation, of course.

I could go on and on about the horrible injustices involved in this system, but I would argue that these issues are not uncommon and certainly not trivial.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by SoonerCoug

Here is another example:

I go in for a regular yearly interview with the bishop. I'm 17 years old. We go through the interview, and apparently I passed the test.

Next, we continue onto a discussion of my parents. Bishop begins asking me about my father. He says that he has heard by word of mouth that my father is having major chastity problems, but that my father does not know that he (bishop) knows. He asks me to fill him in on the subject.

I break down in tears. I proceed to tell him that he must be confused because my father's problems actually have much more to do with his health, and that he has been diagnosed with a terrible disease and is in horrible pain and is suffering terribly. (This was essentially a massive exaggeration to shut the Bishop up.)

I never told my mom or dad about the situation, of course.

I could go on and on about the horrible injustices involved in this system, but I would argue that these issues are not uncommon and certainly not trivial.

Terrible disease is causing major chastity problems? And this explanation worked?

[SoonerCoug]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Terrible disease is causing major chastity problems? And this explanation worked?

I told him that there was no chastity issue, but that he had a horrible disease and that this was the major problem confronting him in his life.

[SoonerCoug]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Terrible disease is causing major chastity problems? And this explanation worked?

The problem is that a Bishop would bring something like this in front of a teenager. It's despicable, and this sort of behavior is not uncommon.

It's the kind of unconfirmed "rumor" or even "pseudorumor" that could destroy a family.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by SoonerCoug

The problem is that a Bishop would bring something like this in front of a teenager. It's despicable, and this sort of behavior is not uncommon.

It is a problem and it is despicable. But can you really in fairness say this is "not uncommon"? I've been in a lot of wards with a lot of bishoprics, and I've served in enough leadership positions to say that this kind of inquisition is relatively rare, from my perspective.

[SoonerCoug]

Originally Posted by Tex

It is a problem and it is despicable. But can you really in fairness say this is "not uncommon"? I've been in a lot of wards with a lot of bishoprics, and I've served in enough leadership positions to say that this kind of inquisition is relatively rare, from my perspective.

And who ever heard of my particular situation besides CougarGuard?

I'd argue that the vast majority of submissive Mormons would never make a peep.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by SoonerCoug

And who ever heard of my particular situation besides CougarGuard?

I'd argue that the vast majority of submissive Mormons would never make a peep.

That's a pretty unfair generalization, in my assessment.

[SoonerCoug]

Originally Posted by Tex

That's a pretty unfair generalization, in my assessment.

Well, we are discouraged from speaking out against leaders, and I believe this allows leaders to get away with just about anything.

Luckily, most LDS Church leaders are good people just trying to do their best. But it only takes one bad leader to destroy a person's life, and plenty of bad ones slip through. Also, plenty of good people with good intentions do horrible things, as well.

There is no quality control, and there is virtually no check or balance on the local Church leaders' behavior during interviews. Any dispute becomes the word of the interviewee against the word of the bishop, and a 15 year old teenager interviewee would lose that battle.

[Goatnapper'96]

Originally Posted by SoonerCoug

Here is another example:

I go in for a regular yearly interview with the bishop. I'm 17 years old. We go through the interview, and apparently I passed the test.

Next, we continue onto a discussion of my parents. Bishop begins asking me about my father. He says that he has heard by word of mouth that my father is having major chastity problems, but that my father does not know that he (bishop) knows. He asks me to fill him in on the subject.

I break down in tears. I proceed to tell him that he must be confused because my father's problems have nothing to do with chastity. Instead, his problems actually have much more to do with his health, and that he has been diagnosed with a terrible disease and is in horrible pain and is suffering terribly. (This was essentially a massive exaggeration to shut the Bishop up.)

I never told my mom or dad about the situation, of course.

I could go on and on about the horrible injustices involved in this system, but I would argue that these issues are not uncommon and certainly not trivial.

I wouldn't trivialize anyone gossiping about someone's rumored infidelity with that individual's child. However, I don't perceive this example giving your contention with the church instituted method any more support. This Bishop of yours sounds to me, like what an uncouth sort of fellar such as myself, might call an asshole. I have long felt that assholes (assholeye?) should not be called as Bishops, but it is unlikely I will ever be in a position to influence they who pick Bishops.

I have two experiences that caused me to wonder about the annointed bourgeosie. Experience 1 was at when my wife's younger sister married the great Marc Dunn, former Ricks College qb who was the NJCOPOY in 2000 and then shunned the BYU to go to Kansas State. Marc's mission president, who was then and is still a GA, came to the reception luncheon at the Joseph Smith Memorial Building. He went into some blubbering story about telling his Elders "su esposa..su esposa" and then admits that he told his Elders that if they worked hard they would marry a more attractive wife. I had heard that line used as what I thought was levity, but apparantly this dude really believed it. Now my wife is what one might call "hot," but I am not. She was a travelling sister (equivalence of AP in the EBM), so rat-tat-tat riddle me that! My other was a member of my present Stake Presidency in a talk admitting that he wanted to leave his mission until his very wealthy father informed him if he shirked his priesthood duty he would not get his portion of the family potato fortune. I was not amazed a father used such a tactic to keep his son in the field, I was amazed the son admitted it publicly years later as if that it was a good motivating tool. I wondered what those of us without the financial means to blackmail our kids are going to do.

I do think the member of the SP and the GA are great folks, I just wonder about some of the things they believe and admit such.

Those are my worst two experiences with any priesthood leader, perhaps I should just consider myself blessed.