Americans views of Mormons Gallup poll

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

This has been a fascinating thread. Did ETB cause LDS to be right-wingers or was he simply a manifestation of the conservative nature of the LDS community? Classic chicken vs. egg scenario, eh? I tend to believe (as several others have expressed) that the truth is somewhere in the middle. Given the rural, western makeup of the church and the political mindset of middle america in the 50's, ETB's message certainly resonated with the rank and file members. And yet, his politics were extreme and no LDS leader in modern times has been anywhere near as political as he was. Not by a mile. Yes, he mellowed in his later years (which is faith-promoting, by the way) but this is a man who would routinely stand up in general conference and give blatantly political talks, including a repeated warning that the civil rights movement was a communist plot. What he did was legitimize extreme political viewpoints in the church. While most members don't walk around quoting him today, there is still a substantial number that do.

Believe it or not, I was raised in a John Birch Society home. I got a belly full of right-wing extremism growing up. I used to resent my mother for scaring the hell out of us kids with stories of evil communists in our midsts, but I tend to be more forgiving as I come to understand how common this was during that period of time. She was a product of her generation.

If Mormons have become more conservative in the past thirty years or more galvanized in their conservativism it's for the same reasons that people everywhere with a natural conservative--particularly socially conservative--pre-disposition have become more conservative or galvanized in their conservativism. The social upheavals of the 1960's, the "sexual revolution," etc., democrats' isolationism and defeatism in the wake of Vietnam, Ronald Reagan, and probably most important, the tide of secularism's assault on traditional religion in our country awakened these tendencies in those who possessed them.

Ezra Taft Benson was incidental to these powerful currents which affected Mormons. Since I was born in 1958 and spent ages 7 to 19 and 21 to 24 in Salt Lake I am an eyewitness to this. My experience was not anecdotal. I grew up in a maximally banal neighborhood on 15th East in South Salt Lake and went to Brighton High. Still my father, who worked for UPI, had Mormon aristocracy aquaintances. When I shook Mark Peterson's hand on my mission he brightened and said my father was a friend of his. When our family lived in Brazil the Bangurter who would become a seventy was a mission president and a close friend of my father's and I played with his children. I don't think we ever had an apostle to dinner in our house but there were many seventies over the years who visited us. I attended Whiting family reunions in St. John's, AZ where the highlight was hearing my distant cousin Rex Lee speak. My uncle has been a law professor at BYU for many years, since I was a teen.

When I graduated from high school in 1976 US Senator Frank Moss spoke at my graduation. He was a democrat. (He would lose to a moderate Republican named Hatch in the next election.) I don't recall if Calvin Rampton, a democrat, was still governor, but he was governor for over twenty years, and about that time another democrat, Scott Matheson, replaced him. 1976 was very late in Benson's career as a politically conservative firebrand apostle. I believe he had ceased that stuff by then.

I'm sure I met John Birchers but none had enough of an impression on me that I remember them. As in everywhere else they were lunatic fringers. I remember the Mormons who brought me up speaking negatively about Birchers and when Benson's political tendencies came up they sighed and rolled their eyes and said things like we'll have to bit the bullet. Benson was if anything a test of faith to mainstream Mormons (apparently too big a test for his atheist grandson who is a pulitzer prize winning cartoonist for the AZ Republic).

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

I'm sure I met John Birchers but none had enough of an impression on me that I remember them. As in everywhere else they were lunatic fringers. I remember the Mormons who brought me up speaking negatively about Birchers and when Benson's political tendencies came up they sighed and rolled their eyes and said things like we'll have to bit the bullet. Benson was if anything a test of faith to mainstream Mormons (apparently too big a test for his atheist grandson who is a pulitzer prize winning cartoonist for the AZ Republic).

All good points. But I am not arguing that there is a strong JBS contingent still within the church. However, there is a significant group of members that firmly believe that any sort of government aid is fundamentally evil. This is part of the legacy of ETB. We can debate about the scope of influence, but he definitely left a stamp.

[myboynoah]

Originally Posted by Detroitdad

So I see stats that do not fit what I would have thought to be the case. Do you have any ideas why this would be the case?

I have absolutely no idea. Perhaps there is some backlash against perceptions that Mormons exert too much influence in the political process (in Utah, Idaho, Arizona, and Nevada, and perhaps in other states to a certain extent). That's just a guess. At the same time, on a regional basis, while the numbers in the West aren't what we would all like to see, they are better than any other region (I think this is true; I don't have the numbers in front of me).

I guess I'm just a hopeful person. I think my interaction over the years with my wife's family, none of whom had ever met a Mormon before I came along, would have led them to think positively of LDS people. They might think some of our practices are weird, but at least they know we are very much like them. Work colleagues have told me similar stories of LDS people with whom they have worked.

Romney comes right out of central casting: good looking, well spoken, a success in his own right in several endeavors, and what appears to be a really good person. Better him the Evan Meacham, or even Orin Hatch.

[Archaea]

People will develop a dislike for any group that appears cohesive and might vote differently than how the observer might vote.

[il Padrino Ute]

I still think Gallup should do this kind of poll about Muslims because Obama is running.

Too bad Lieberman isn't running this year either, because I'd like to see Gallup have the guts to do a poll like this about Jews.

[Detroitdad]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

I still think Gallup should do this kind of poll about Muslims because Obama is running.

Too bad Lieberman isn't running this year either, because I'd like to see Gallup have the guts to do a poll like this about Jews.

There are lots of polls like these about Jews and Muslims out there. We come out better than Muslims and worse than Jews (because everyone knows that it is bigoted to have negative views of Jews).

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by Detroitdad

There are lots of polls like these about Jews and Muslims out there. We come out better than Muslims and worse than Jews (because everyone knows that it is bigoted to have negative views of Jews).

This is quite possibly the stupidest thing I've seen written on this forum. Are you really incapable of reflecting that people might form perceptions of Mormons vs. Jews based on substantive facts rather than concerns about being perceived as bigoted?

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by Detroitdad

There are lots of polls like these about Jews and Muslims out there. We come out better than Muslims and worse than Jews (because everyone knows that it is bigoted to have negative views of Jews).

I didn't know there were polls like this. But then, I don't really look for them.

Yes, it's bigoted to have a negative view of Jew which is a shame, because there are a few out there that are deserving of hatred.

How about a poll like this:

Which would be worse for America?

a) Mormon
b) Jew
c) Muslim

What can I say? I am a hate monger kind of guy.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

I didn't know there were polls like this. But then, I don't really look for them.

Yes, it's bigoted to have a negative view of Jew which is a shame, because there are a few out there that are deserving of hatred.

How about a poll like this:

Which would be worse for America?

a) Mormon
b) Jew
c) Muslim

What can I say? I am a hate monger kind of guy.

Keep on yapping. You're just reaffirming all those negative poll numbers about perceptions of Mormons, on the merits.

You don't have the slightes idea what the word Jew even means or stands for.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Keep on yapping. You're just reaffirming all those negative poll numbers about perceptions of Mormons, on the merits.

You don't have the slightes idea what the word Jew even means or stands for.

A Jew is someone who practices Judaism, is it not? It's a religion. Just like Mormonism.

If I'm wrong, enlighten me.