I want to challenge Snipe - Page 6 - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

SeattleUte · 06-18-2007, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tex

A very succinct way of exposing the logical fallacy at play here.

Hardly. I wasn't aware that water boarding was for a relatively large number of people a sport or diversion.

It seems that if I wanted Indy to squeal one thing that would work would be to take him up in a small plane and strap a parachute on him and throw him out the door. Then threaten to do it again and again. Would that be torture in Indy's case?

Archaea · 06-18-2007, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by All-American

I realize that. It is the great weakness in my argument-- the fact that I'm all talk. I'm stating an ideal that I can only hope I would be able to aspire to if the times demanded it.

But then again, "all men are created equal" was an unattainable ideal, too.

I felt badly about Pat Tillman and started talking to my wife to see about how my wife would feel if I gave up to work for our intelligence so that I could be more than talk and to work on the ground. She about blew a gasket. "How could you do that to us?" At my age the military wouldn't take me except in intelligence. I about had a military appointment to the AFA and feel badly now I didn't pursue that.

Discussions of striving for noble causes didn't sit well with her. We also looked at some health care clinics in Africa, but apparently if Neiman Marcus doesn't sell there, she won't live there.

Archaea · 06-18-2007, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Hardly. I wasn't aware that water boarding was for a relatively large number of people a sport or diversion.

It seems that if I wanted Indy to squeal one thing that would work would be to take him up in a small plane and strap a parachute on him and throw him out the door. Then threaten to do it again and again. Would that be torture in Indy's case?

My sister has skydived, my client has wanted to teach me, when do we start?

Tex · 06-18-2007, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Hardly. I wasn't aware that water boarding was for a relatively large number of people a sport or diversion.

It seems that if I wanted Indy to squeal one thing that would work would be to take him up in a small plane and strap a parachute on him and throw him out the door. Then threaten to do it again and again. Would that be torture in Indy's case?

One of Mike's standard tactics is the "if you only knew what I knew, you'd agree with me" line. Read his posts and he uses it over and over again.

This "challenge" is just a variant of that fallacious approach. "If you knew how unpleasant waterboarding was, you'd agree it was torture."

MikeWaters · 06-18-2007, 04:12 PM

So bottom line is that the pro-waterboarders are pussies, and won't do this for a lousy minute for charity?

Indy Coug · 06-18-2007, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

So bottom line is that the pro-waterboarders are pussies, and won't do this for a lousy minute for charity?

Just because something is very unpleasant doesn't qualify it as torture. If that were the case, I'd have reported you to Amnesty International a long time ago.

Archaea · 06-18-2007, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tex

One of Mike's standard tactics is the "if you only knew what I knew, you'd agree with me" line. Read his posts and he uses it over and over again.

This "challenge" is just a variant of that fallacious approach. "If you knew how unpleasant waterboarding was, you'd agree it was torture."

He has a valid point that we should not become the poster children for abusing prisoners, it is both politically compromising abroad and potentially ineffective. He is simply employing histrionics to overstate his case through hyperbole.

BYU71 · 06-18-2007, 04:15 PM

up for life Mike. Once you have gotten waterboarding stopped, are you going to challenge people to be put in prison for life to see how they like it.

I can't believe Charlie Manson never thought of that. Charlie to Americans, "We ought to put some of you in jail for life and see how you would like it."

MikeWaters · 06-18-2007, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BYU71

up for life Mike. Once you have gotten waterboarding stopped, are you going to challenge people to be put in prison for life to see how they like it.

I can't believe Charlie Manson never thought of that. Charlie to Americans, "We ought to put some of you in jail for life and see how you would like it."

I support the death penalty. But certainly not in an arbitrary secretive manner like torture is conducted.

All-American · 06-18-2007, 04:17 PM

Mike's original point was to dispute those who said that waterboarding was not a form of torture. Is there anybody left who will still argue that?

Whether torture at all is appropriate or not under any circumstances is a different question, which seems to be the one under the microscope now.

06-18-2007, 04:15 PM	#58
BYU71 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 5,084	So how do you feel about locking someone up for life Mike. Once you have gotten waterboarding stopped, are you going to challenge people to be put in prison for life to see how they like it. I can't believe Charlie Manson never thought of that. Charlie to Americans, "We ought to put some of you in jail for life and see how you would like it."

06-18-2007, 04:17 PM	#60
All-American Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3,420	Mike's original point was to dispute those who said that waterboarding was not a form of torture. Is there anybody left who will still argue that? Whether torture at all is appropriate or not under any circumstances is a different question, which seems to be the one under the microscope now. __________________ εν αρχη ην ο λογος

06-18-2007, 04:12 PM	#55
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	So bottom line is that the pro-waterboarders are pussies, and won't do this for a lousy minute for charity?