Disappointed with Nelson's talk - Page 6 - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

TripletDaddy · 10-09-2008, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creekster

Triplet is a widow?

I was at the SC game, but I didnt see any widows.

I saw some orphans, though.

UtahDan · 10-09-2008, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tex

Like you're gonna read 'em.

Here's the offending quote:

Seems like that's doctrine straight out of the scriptures, and by using words like "in fact" and "clearly distinguishes," Elder Nelson wants to leave you with no room for the wrong impression.

Parenthetically, I actually thought this line might ruffle some feathers here. I was surprised no one said anything.

When my grandfather died, he a prominent Mormon in the DC area at the time (1975), my grandmother received letters from a local congregation of Christians for months letting her know that her husband was now in hell.

I don't disagree with the doctrine in the talk, but I do see the point that this could increase the suffering of some needlessly. Maybe when you are as old as he is you don't worry so much about how things are received and just say bluntly what you think. I mean that seriously.

Tex · 10-09-2008, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UtahDan

When my grandfather died, he a prominent Mormon in the DC area at the time (1975), my grandmother received letters from a local congregation of Christians for months letting her know that her husband was now in hell.

I don't disagree with the doctrine in the talk, but I do see the point that this could increase the suffering of some needlessly. Maybe when you are as old as he is you don't worry so much about how things are received and just say bluntly what you think. I mean that seriously.

Ha. Yeah, what I need is to be more blunt.

UtahDan · 10-09-2008, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tex

Ha. Yeah, what I need is to be more blunt.

You're not even half his age.

TripletDaddy · 10-09-2008, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tex

Like you're gonna read 'em.

Here's the offending quote:

Seems like that's doctrine straight out of the scriptures, and by using words like "in fact" and "clearly distinguishes," Elder Nelson wants to leave you with no room for the wrong impression.

Parenthetically, I actually thought this line might ruffle some feathers here. I was surprised no one said anything.

Not only will I read them, but I will comprehend them, which puts me one step ahead of you, who simply heard them, but didnt listen to them.

BTW, how does Elder Nelson know that the deceased in the obiturary rejected eternal marriage? I guess he is assuming that the person was given the opportunity to hear and accept the Gospel? Otherwise, he seems to be in error.

SoCalCoug · 10-09-2008, 01:51 AM

Here's what I think (not that anyone really cares).

A three-year-old has a very immature and incomplete idea of what a marriage is, with no comprehension of the nuances of the relationship.

Likewise, we probably have a very immature and incomplete idea of what celestial marriage is, with no comprehension of the nuances of such a relationship.

Elder Nelson and Jay Santos both seem to be struggling to reconcile an eternal concept into our finite understanding. I see Elder Nelson's point, and I see Jay's point. I don't have an answer to either, but I can't argue with either.

I don't Jay is wrong for questioning it, and I do think Elder Nelson is giving a simplistic treatment to the issue. I'm sure there's a better way to address the issue, but I haven't given it enough thought to come up with one.

Certainly a discussion of the concept is appropriate, despite Indy's and Tex's attempts to squelch the issue.

Sometimes I wonder whether our inability to comprehend eternal concepts is due to our incapacity, or whether it is due more to our failure to attempt.

Jay does bring up a good point about how easy it is for some of the doctrinal explanations to be too simple and not taking into account particular individual circumstances.

I honestly think that when we die, we're going to pretty surprised at what we find - I doubt it's going to be just as we're expecting.

Tex · 10-09-2008, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UtahDan

You're not even half his age.

Heh, like you know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

BTW, how does Elder Nelson know that the deceased in the obiturary rejected eternal marriage? I guess he is assuming that the person was given the opportunity to hear and accept the Gospel? Otherwise, he seems to be in error.

The Spirit whispered.

UtahDan · 10-09-2008, 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tex

Heh, like you know.

That's true, but based long experience with you I am very comfortable placing you within a range.

FMCoug · 10-09-2008, 02:36 AM

The degree of parsing here never ceases to amaze me. Is it even comprehendible that he was referring to a generic obituary that would say something like that and using it as an object lesson, nothing more?

Tex · 10-09-2008, 03:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UtahDan

When my grandfather died, he a prominent Mormon in the DC area at the time (1975), my grandmother received letters from a local congregation of Christians for months letting her know that her husband was now in hell.

I hardly see how that's comparable in any degree.

10-09-2008, 01:51 AM	#56
SoCalCoug Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Orange County, California Posts: 3,059	Here's what I think (not that anyone really cares). A three-year-old has a very immature and incomplete idea of what a marriage is, with no comprehension of the nuances of the relationship. Likewise, we probably have a very immature and incomplete idea of what celestial marriage is, with no comprehension of the nuances of such a relationship. Elder Nelson and Jay Santos both seem to be struggling to reconcile an eternal concept into our finite understanding. I see Elder Nelson's point, and I see Jay's point. I don't have an answer to either, but I can't argue with either. I don't Jay is wrong for questioning it, and I do think Elder Nelson is giving a simplistic treatment to the issue. I'm sure there's a better way to address the issue, but I haven't given it enough thought to come up with one. Certainly a discussion of the concept is appropriate, despite Indy's and Tex's attempts to squelch the issue. Sometimes I wonder whether our inability to comprehend eternal concepts is due to our incapacity, or whether it is due more to our failure to attempt. Jay does bring up a good point about how easy it is for some of the doctrinal explanations to be too simple and not taking into account particular individual circumstances. I honestly think that when we die, we're going to pretty surprised at what we find - I doubt it's going to be just as we're expecting. __________________ Get your stinking paws off me, you damned, dirty Yewt! "Now perhaps as I spanked myself screaming out "Kozlowski, say it like you mean it bitch!" might have been out of line, but such was the mood." - Goatnapper "If you want to fatten a pig up to make the pig MORE delicious, you can feed it almost anything. Seriously. The pig is like the car on Back to the Future. You put in garbage, and out comes something magical!" - Cali Coug

10-09-2008, 02:36 AM	#59
FMCoug Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kaysville, UT Posts: 3,151	The degree of parsing here never ceases to amaze me. Is it even comprehendible that he was referring to a generic obituary that would say something like that and using it as an object lesson, nothing more? __________________ Still fat ...