Darron Smith to be on RadioWest on Wed. 11am and 7pm MST

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Power to the people, write in and ask them to change it. Why put in such a highly contentious statement of questionable value, in a church that gets labeled racist?

in principle I agree and will write in, but you forget you're dealing with bureaucrats Mike. Remember those not so nice people in Medicare or Medicaid? Well, they act the same way in the Church office.

You will either get one of three answers, "not in my power," "I'll look into it", and "you must not understand." And perhaps a forth, "how dare you counsel the Lord."

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

I wouldn't use it in my lesson because I don't think it's a very imporrant point and there really isn't much follow up discussion in the manual.

In Aaronic priesthood, once you get them in class alone, and then you finish quorum business, you only have about 15-20 minutes of lesson time. You have time to read some scripture, make a couple points, and have some limited discussion. On the subject of marriage, better to use your time talking about specific characteristics of future wives the young men should look for, and be the kind of young men they're looking for, and talking about respect for women/girls in general.

[creekster]

I am not sure about miscegenation, but it seems to me that its premise is segregation and that's not so good.

I am white, my son is white/poly mix but looks more white. My son's roommate this year in college was black. My son and some of his friends started an after school program for inner city school kids where they volunteered 2x a week. All of the kids attending were black. I once asked my son if his roommate also volunteered and my son laughed and said no, because the roommate wasn't comfortable going into the inner city to deal with the kids. I asked why not and my son said because the roommate (who is black, remember) was such a white man.

If you're still with me here, the point is that now the cultural differences that I suspect were in SWK's mind when he said that have changed to much more of an economic issue than an ethnic issue. In SWK's day, those were largely identical due to, among other things, segregation. Thus, the advice sounds much worse than it did originally, and should be eliminated from manuals, IMO, but the point that he was trying to make I understand. As a result, I just find it hard to get into too much of a lather about this particular quotation, but, whatever floats yer boat, man.

[SeattleUte]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jym-RtHHG0s

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by creekster

I am not sure about miscegenation, but it seems to me that its premise is segregation and that's not so good.

I am white, my son is white/poly mix but looks more white. My son's roommate this year in college was black. My son and some of his friends started an after school program for inner city school kids where they volunteered 2x a week. All of the kids attending were black. I once asked my son if his roommate also volunteered and my son laughed and said no, because the roommate wasn't comfortable going into the inner city to deal with the kids. I asked why not and my son said because the roommate (who is black, remember) was such a white man.

If you're still with me here, the point is that now the cultural differences that I suspect were in SWK's mind when he said that have changed to much more of an economic issue than an ethnic issue. In SWK's day, those were largely identical due to, among other things, segregation. Thus, the advice sounds much worse than it did originally, and should be eliminated from manuals, IMO, but the point that he was trying to make I understand. As a result, I just find it hard to get into too much of a lather about this particular quotation, but, whatever floats yer boat, man.

Have you considered that SWK was using code for pure racism. In his time it was very much not cool to be racist. He had to be careful. He showed hist racist colors talking about indigenous Latin American people turning white after they converted to Mormonism.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Have you considered that SWK was using code for pure racism. In his time it was very much not cool to be racist. He had to be careful. He showed hist racist colors talking about indigenous Latin American people turning white after they converted to Mormonism.

Yes. I considered it. DId you consider that perhaps he wasn't?

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by creekster

Yes. I considered it. DId you consider that perhaps he wasn't?

I'm confident that in his heart of hearts he didn't want white and delightsome Mormon girls marrying blacks. I think this was the impetus for the ban in the first place, scaring girls into thinking that for generations ad infinitum their posterity would be banned from the priesthood.

[Solon]

Originally Posted by myboynoah

Kimball's quote appears well intentioned, for the time. Given greater social mobility and overwhelming advances in communications since the quote, the racial element seems very antiquated and should be dropped. It simply isn't relevent any more.

For the time? This was only 30 years ago! It's not like we're reading the ship manifests of slavers. This is our own lifetime.

The basic, "we don't believe in this anymore because it's outdated" approach is bogus. It's still in the manuals. It's still in the brochures that are out on the table in the chapel I go to for visitors to peruse. It still "counts."

[creekster]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

I'm confident that in his heart of hearts he didn't want white and delightsome Mormon girls marrying blacks. I think this was the impetus for the ban in the first place, scaring scaring girls into thinking that for generations ad infinitum their posterity would be banned from the priesthood.

I have no way of knowing that and neither do you. I actually tend to think that your idea baout the insualrity of LDS leadership in the 60s and 70s is valid to some degree. SWK was certainly a product of his place and times. You, however, are equating his counsle on race and marriage with the priesthood ban and these are not equivalent. Given our knowledge you can impute bad or reasonable motives or somethign in between. I think I am in the middle. You are out nearer the end of the spectrum.

[SeattleUte]

This "for the time" excuse making is such bullshit. It's bullshit. Bullshit. Leave aside these men are supposed to be prophets. Millions and millions of people had figured out racism was wrong while Mormon "propets" were still practicing it. Enforcing apartheid, based on crationism. It simply isn't true that everyone was racist when Mormons were racist.

This is another lie perpetrated by apologists. Every apologist I've ever met is a liar except Indy.