Either the Lakers or Spurs

[Flystripper]

Laker fans see all the calls that Kobe doesn't get

Laker haters see all the calls that Kobe gets.

The truth is likely somewhere in the middle.

I know as a Laker fan I notice plenty of times that Kobe does not get the call I thought he deserved, and I am sure I gloss over many of the calls he gets that he does not deserve.

[Spaz]

Originally Posted by Flystripper

Laker fans see all the calls that Kobe doesn't get

Laker haters see all the calls that Kobe gets.

The truth is likely somewhere in the middle.

I know as a Laker fan I notice plenty of times that Kobe does not get the call I thought he deserved, and I am sure I gloss over many of the calls he gets that he does not deserve.

As is our right as fans.

Understand - I'm not complaining about it. I recognize that there's probably some calls he gets that others wouldn't. And yet it's obvious that he doesn't 'get the call' nearly as often as some say he does.

[TripletDaddy]

Over the course of a career, the greatest players excelled simply because they were better....not because of calls. They definitely get star treatment at times, but what wins out is talent.

Kobe gets calls, he also doesnt get some calls.

It was the same as Shaq....he bulled over everyone, but he was also hacked on every play.

MJ, Bird, Magic, etc...all the same

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

Over the course of a career, the greatest players excelled simply because they were better....not because of calls. They definitely get star treatment at times, but what wins out is talent.

Kobe gets calls, he also doesnt get some calls.

It was the same as Shaq....he bulled over everyone, but he was also hacked on every play.

MJ, Bird, Magic, etc...all the same

True, but no reasonable person could ever say with a straight face that Jordan didn't push off. Worst no-call ever.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

True, but no reasonable person could ever say with a straight face that Jordan didn't push off. Worst no-call ever.

IPU, my music brother, I am saying it with a straight face.

Mini B got juked. He gambled, cut a certain way, and MJ simply cut back. MJ was great, but he was not strong enough to push Mini B all that way and in that direction with his simple clear-out move.

I know this play is raw for Jazz fans, but you only have yourselves to blame. If they were not playing that game on a Sunday, they might have won.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

IPU, my music brother, I am saying it with a straight face.

Mini B got juked. He gambled, cut a certain way, and MJ simply cut back. MJ was great, but he was not strong enough to push Mini B all that way and in that direction with his simple clear-out move.

I know this play is raw for Jazz fans, but you only have yourselves to blame. If they were not playing that game on a Sunday, they might have won.

Only a Utah Jazz hater would not see it as a push off.

At the :40 spot the camera angle will show Jordan's move and he clearly puts his hand on Russell's ass and pushes him out of the way:

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

Only a Utah Jazz hater would not see it as a push off.

At the :40 spot the camera angle will show Jordan's move and he clearly puts his hand on Russell's ass and pushes him out of the way:

I dont debate that he clearly touches him. The conspiracy theorists claim that said "push off" is really what allowed him to make the shot.

in the clip you provide, B goes forward about 6 feet. That is a pretty STRONG shove against a defender that, if you are correct, was not already in motion, but instead was stationary and had position. B thought MJ was going to cut, so he started moving, MJ created more space with his hand. He did not shove him 5-7 feet. try doing that sometime. it would be next to impossible with one arm.

Also, I said before I am not a Jazz hater. I am a "Jazz are not really relevant-er" I dont hate the Jazz. I had no horse in that game. Both the Jazz and the Bulls beat the Lakers during that era, so there was no motive for me to cheer for or against either, really.

[SipiTau]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

Only a Utah Jazz hater would not see it as a push off.

At the :40 spot the camera angle will show Jordan's move and he clearly puts his hand on Russell's ass and pushes him out of the way:

I thought it was a clear push off, but it's MJ.....what ref is going to make that call?

[SipiTau]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

IPU, my music brother, I am saying it with a straight face.

Mini B got juked. He gambled, cut a certain way, and MJ simply cut back. MJ was great, but he was not strong enough to push Mini B all that way and in that direction with his simple clear-out move.

I know this play is raw for Jazz fans, but you only have yourselves to blame. If they were not playing that game on a Sunday, they might have won.

lol! The next day wouldn't have worked due to FHE; the Jazz weren't meant to win it that year.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

I dont debate that he clearly touches him. The conspiracy theorists claim that said "push off" is really what allowed him to make the shot.

in the clip you provide, B goes forward about 6 feet. That is a pretty STRONG shove against a defender that, if you are correct, was not already in motion, but instead was stationary and had position. B thought MJ was going to cut, so he started moving, MJ created more space with his hand. He did not shove him 5-7 feet. try doing that sometime. it would be next to impossible with one arm.

Also, I said before I am not a Jazz hater. I am a "Jazz are not really relevant-er" I dont hate the Jazz. I had no horse in that game. Both the Jazz and the Bulls beat the Lakers during that era, so there was no motive for me to cheer for or against either, really.

The point isn't that Jordan pushed him 7 feet away. The point is that Jordan pushed him. It was not incidental contact. It was intentional.

I've been trying to find the Mike Mathis interview with Jim Rome last summer when the Tim Donaghey scandal blew up. Mathis was talking about questionable officiating that has been going on for years and he specifically brought up the Jordan push off. Mathis is considered on of the best and most fair officials in the history of the league, so if he's questioned it, there is more to it than most would like to admit.