Since it is boring and Jay Santos has his voice on this site.... - Page 6 - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

jay santos · 10-11-2006, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Said. Furthermore, this was independently backed up by a highly reliable source inside the program. But there's no need to reveal the who and where of that conversation since I already have the aforementioned information.

No my question wasn't whether he said it or implied it but whether he simply said "Crowton was fired for the scandals not the record" or whether he took a stand to actually say "Crowton wouldn't have been fired with a 5-6 2004 record had it not been for the HC scandals".

Did Samuelson speculate on when or if Crowton would have been fired if he continued losing, given the theoretical situation of no HC scandals?

OhioBlue · 10-12-2006, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Said. Furthermore, this was independently backed up by a highly reliable source inside the program. But there's no need to reveal the who and where of that conversation since I already have the aforementioned information.

Sorry, I've watched this from afar up to this point. This is absolutely, positively, patently false. At least if I'm understanding you correctly, that if not for HC issues Crowton would have retained his job. Sorry, nope. As in no way jose. HC issues or no, Crowton was done. I agree that the HC issues constituted the boat finally going under, but you and anyone else who agrees are fools if you believe the boat had not already sustained irreparable damage and was on its way to sinking regardless.

That's all I'm going to say on the matter.

OhioBlue · 10-12-2006, 02:50 PM

Actually no, I will say one more thing.

If you are the head of an organization of people who you are expected to lead and you claim to care about their development, what do you do if a few of those people for whom you are responsible get involved in something that brings negative attention to your organization and adversely affects these people's personal lives? Let's sweeten it for kicks and say that the trouble they've got in is wildly over-inflated by the media and that innocent people are also being hurt?

As a leader of that organization what do you do? How do you respond?

I'm willing to bet good money that most of you would not turn your back on and completely bail on these people, leaving them alone to struggle to stay afloat. Especially if you played a major part in getting them to come and commit to your organization in the first place. And I'm betting that you would offer help and show concern without even being asked--and that if asked, you certainly wouldn't ignore the request.

NOW I'm done. For now.

Goatnapper'96 · 10-12-2006, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John M. Haddow

I find it incredulous that a bunch of uneducated, unprofessional clowns who hide behind anonymous monikers think that criticizing one of the more successful coaches in BYU history would take the time to pick apart the years of service that he endured amongst your whiny generation.

Not only have I hosted numerous dinner parties with Elder Crowton, his predecessor, and life-long BYU supporter Michael O. Leavitt, but I have been a part of senate hearings when his name was mentioned in a positive light. These absurd, slanderous posts by your juvenile peers resemble the ingrates who destroyed Book of Mormon societies, the Frisians and the Jutes.

Now this is funny.

Goatnapper'96 · 10-12-2006, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhioBlue

Sorry, I've watched this from afar up to this point. This is absolutely, positively, patently false. At least if I'm understanding you correctly, that if not for HC issues Crowton would have retained his job. Sorry, nope. As in no way jose. HC issues or no, Crowton was done. I agree that the HC issues constituted the boat finally going under, but you and anyone else who agrees are fools if you believe the boat had not already sustained irreparable damage and was on its way to sinking regardless.

That's all I'm going to say on the matter.

Ohio, do you really think you will eradicate LDS culture of ninniness? Good luck. It makes us feel better if he was fired because of bad things that were not up to BYU's moral standards rather than admitting terrestrial world market forces have any impact.

Gary fired due to scandals at the worst and his FYM tapping some girl of illrepute at the best = In the world but clearly not of.

Gary fired because his team quit on him (which some posters were so blinded by blind loyalty they could not see until LRJR admitted to a reputable TBS fellow that he had given up the ghost....) and the poor performance of his team..check that consistent piss poor performance = In and OF the WORLD.

Lavell worked for breathtaking views of Mount Timpanogas and the blessing of conducting firesides, damnedit!

Surfah · 10-12-2006, 05:09 PM

I have been on a team where certain players have quit on a coach and in turn quit on the team. Our coach one year had a secret meeting with 11 players from the team and called them the Elite 11. These were the players in the coach's estimation who were the difference makers on the team ad who would determine the success of our season. Of course nothing stayed secret and in effect the coach divided his team against the Elite 11. The only thing that kept the whole thing from turning on it's head was a few players who still believed regardless and kept the team together.

In fact on our team I'll never forget there was some animosity between one of the kids who had mailed it in and our QB who was one of the coach's staunchest defenders (he was also tagged one of the Elite 11). Anyway, we had a Remember the Titans moment one game and a kid missed a block on purpose and our QB took one in the kidneys. A few players called him out and the coach made note of it when we reviewed films Saturday morning after the game. Monday at practice, the offending player had a little Bull in the ring (a highly illegal drill) and coach called numbers of players as they lit him up.

TheSizzle36 · 10-12-2006, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by surfah33

the offending player had a little Bull in the ring (a highly illegal drill) and coach called numbers of players as they lit him up.

That was one of my favorite drills as a Senior.

I was not as big of a fan of it as a Junior though.

jay santos · 10-12-2006, 05:32 PM

I don't disagree that some of the players and maybe the whole team "quit" on Coach Crowton, and not just in 2004. This is a very common and happens on many losing teams. Usually players don't even know when they've quit, they just subconciously give a lesser effort or fail to reach down deep for that extra "110%". Another way a team can quit on a coach can be by ignoring the coach's advice. This is not usually with the intention to fail purposefully but because the player believes he knows better than the coach. Another way to quit could be to start playing for individual glory and honors instead of the team. I could easily believe the team quit on Crowton by these definitions, in fact I do believe they did--almost every season.

But it's a whole 'nother level to accuse the team of intentionally throwing a game to get their coach fired. I do not agree with this. I also don't believe the comments about LR Jr.

"Respected posters" need to know when they're getting lied to, played, spun, exaggerated to, and given false info their source believes is true. I'd like to know what Indy's karma points are at right now, along with the rest of this CB crowd that is so easily influenced by spectacular "inside info".

Surfah · 10-12-2006, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSizzle36

That was one of my favorite drills as a Senior.

I was not as big of a fan of it as a Junior though.

It was a drill I always enjoyed too. I believe it was banned in California in 1994-95. There were still other drills similar in nature and intent that we did after that season.

Surfah · 10-12-2006, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay santos

I don't disagree that some of the players and maybe the whole team "quit" on Coach Crowton, and not just in 2004. This is a very common and happens on many losing teams. Usually players don't even know when they've quit, they just subconciously give a lesser effort or fail to reach down deep for that extra "110%". Another way a team can quit on a coach can be by ignoring the coach's advice. This is not usually with the intention to fail purposefully but because the player believes he knows better than the coach. Another way to quit could be to start playing for individual glory and honors instead of the team. I could easily believe the team quit on Crowton by these definitions, in fact I do believe they did--almost every season.

But it's a whole 'nother level to accuse the team of intentionally throwing a game to get their coach fired. I do not agree with this. I also don't believe the comments about LR Jr.

Do you not believe because of LR Jr.'s character or because this is BYU we're talking about? Why can't a player not give 110% or not listen to his coach in an effort to see that his coach he does not like or agree with returns? I don't think it's implausible at all. And in that way they're not throwing the game, just not doing everything within their power to win.

Now, if you want to talk about throwing games, I wouldn't be surprised if price fixing and other stunts are very prevalent in today's college sports.

10-12-2006, 02:50 PM	#53
OhioBlue Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Ames, IA Posts: 469	Actually no, I will say one more thing. If you are the head of an organization of people who you are expected to lead and you claim to care about their development, what do you do if a few of those people for whom you are responsible get involved in something that brings negative attention to your organization and adversely affects these people's personal lives? Let's sweeten it for kicks and say that the trouble they've got in is wildly over-inflated by the media and that innocent people are also being hurt? As a leader of that organization what do you do? How do you respond? I'm willing to bet good money that most of you would not turn your back on and completely bail on these people, leaving them alone to struggle to stay afloat. Especially if you played a major part in getting them to come and commit to your organization in the first place. And I'm betting that you would offer help and show concern without even being asked--and that if asked, you certainly wouldn't ignore the request. NOW I'm done. For now. __________________ On the other hand, you have different fingers. -- Steven Wright

10-12-2006, 05:09 PM	#56
Surfah Master Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: F'burg, VA Posts: 3,211	I have been on a team where certain players have quit on a coach and in turn quit on the team. Our coach one year had a secret meeting with 11 players from the team and called them the Elite 11. These were the players in the coach's estimation who were the difference makers on the team ad who would determine the success of our season. Of course nothing stayed secret and in effect the coach divided his team against the Elite 11. The only thing that kept the whole thing from turning on it's head was a few players who still believed regardless and kept the team together. In fact on our team I'll never forget there was some animosity between one of the kids who had mailed it in and our QB who was one of the coach's staunchest defenders (he was also tagged one of the Elite 11). Anyway, we had a Remember the Titans moment one game and a kid missed a block on purpose and our QB took one in the kidneys. A few players called him out and the coach made note of it when we reviewed films Saturday morning after the game. Monday at practice, the offending player had a little Bull in the ring (a highly illegal drill) and coach called numbers of players as they lit him up. __________________ Ernie Johnson: "Auburn is a pretty good school. To graduate from there I suppose you really need to work hard and put forth maximum effort." Charles Barkley: "20 pts and 10 rebounds will get you through also!"

10-12-2006, 05:32 PM	#58
jay santos Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,177	I don't disagree that some of the players and maybe the whole team "quit" on Coach Crowton, and not just in 2004. This is a very common and happens on many losing teams. Usually players don't even know when they've quit, they just subconciously give a lesser effort or fail to reach down deep for that extra "110%". Another way a team can quit on a coach can be by ignoring the coach's advice. This is not usually with the intention to fail purposefully but because the player believes he knows better than the coach. Another way to quit could be to start playing for individual glory and honors instead of the team. I could easily believe the team quit on Crowton by these definitions, in fact I do believe they did--almost every season. But it's a whole 'nother level to accuse the team of intentionally throwing a game to get their coach fired. I do not agree with this. I also don't believe the comments about LR Jr. "Respected posters" need to know when they're getting lied to, played, spun, exaggerated to, and given false info their source believes is true. I'd like to know what Indy's karma points are at right now, along with the rest of this CB crowd that is so easily influenced by spectacular "inside info".