Excommunication

[exUte]

Originally Posted by RockyBalboa

Excommunication is sometimes and obviously part of the repentance process and is sometimes a neccessary part or step, although I know the intellectual mullahs on here will typically disagree with that.

Whether you like that or agree with it is completely irrelevant.

You're also assuming you understand how to define "repentant sinner".

once. Actually he was repentant long enough to be allowed to baptize his son and then quite coming to church and kept up his behavior. Wonderful guy.

[RockyBalboa]

Originally Posted by exUte

once. Actually he was repentant long enough to be allowed to baptize his son and then quite coming to church and kept up his behavior. Wonderful guy.

Fuck you Gerdy Eysser.

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by cougarobgon

IHowever, let's take some one like me who is endowed, is a returned missionary, is sealed in the temple, and has served as a Bishop, I believe and expect that I would be excommunicated. Is the Bishop or SP less compassionate with me? I don't think so. To me it is very simple, someone in my situation should known better. I have absolutely no excuses. The knowledge, the experience, and the covenants I have made in the temple, put me at a higher level of accountability than others. Having said that, if I have truly repented of the sin, I believe I would have the capacity to accept the discipline and would take the necessary steps to return to full fellowship.

blah blah blah BS. Someone's got to be bishop and stake president.

[exUte]

Originally Posted by RockyBalboa

F&^% you Gerdy Eysser.

vulgarity and anger? Never met you. Glad I haven't. You got problems.

[exUte]

Originally Posted by BYUHoopster

Without going into details I have recently been made aware that a current Bishop and former member of my Stake Presidency has had ongoing affairs over many years. I assume there is no question that he will be exed.

My question is how long does the process take? Assuming he met with the Stake President today will he be excommunicated by the end of the week or will it take longer. Further, because of his status in the church will they be announcing this over the pulpit?

definitely be a crucial determining factor along with his position within the Priesthood. Sounds like a wonderful guy. I've wondered what was going through his head while asking the temple recommend questions of others.

[cougarobgon]

Originally Posted by jay santos

blah blah blah BS. Someone's got to be bishop and stake president.

When one becomes a bishop or a stake president the "accountability" factor increases. If you believe that the statement is BS, please elaborate. At the moment, I am neither a bishop nor a stake president and currently teach primary. But, having once served in the capacity of a bishop, I expect that if I were to commit adultery today, I would be excommunicated.

In my current situation, any circumstances that would lead me to commit adultery would be irrelevant. I knowingly put my self in a situation that ended up in committing adultery, I expect to be exed. The circumstances, i.e., wife incapacitated and cannot have sexual relations, frequency of the sin, immediate confession, etc, I believe would be considered when determining the length of time before I could request a council to consider my desire to be re-baptized.

I believe that the most difficult part of the whole repentance process if one commits adultery is to confess to spouse and family. RC Vikings earlier asked what benefit is there to confessing to wife and family, thereby hurting and possibly causing a divorce? I have limited real life experience with this type of situation. During my six years as bishop, I recall only having to deal with the issue of adultery twice. And by the time the sin was confessed, the individuals had already confessed to their spouses and the spouses came with them at the time they came to see me. In both situations, both spouses were present during the disciplinary council and each asked to address the council on their spouse's behalf. As difficult as it may be to have to let your spouse know you have been unfaithful, you have betrayed her by violating a sacred covenant. Confess and let her go through the process of forgiving you. If divorce is the resulting consequence, remain friends with her and become a great father to your children.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by cougarobgon

When one becomes a bishop or a stake president the "accountability" factor increases. If you believe that the statement is BS, please elaborate. At the moment, I am neither a bishop nor a stake president and currently teach primary. But, having once served in the capacity of a bishop, I expect that if I were to commit adultery today, I would be excommunicated.

In my current situation, any circumstances that would lead me to commit adultery would be irrelevant. I knowingly put my self in a situation that ended up in committing adultery, I expect to be exed. The circumstances, i.e., wife incapacitated and cannot have sexual relations, frequency of the sin, immediate confession, etc, I believe would be considered when determining the length of time before I could request a council to consider my desire to be re-baptized.

I believe that the most difficult part of the whole repentance process if one commits adultery is to confess to spouse and family. RC Vikings earlier asked what benefit is there to confessing to wife and family, thereby hurting and possibly causing a divorce? I have limited real life experience with this type of situation. During my six years as bishop, I recall only having to deal with the issue of adultery twice. And by the time the sin was confessed, the individuals had already confessed to their spouses and the spouses came with them at the time they came to see me. In both situations, both spouses were present during the disciplinary council and each asked to address the council on their spouse's behalf. As difficult as it may be to have to let your spouse know you have been unfaithful, you have betrayed her by violating a sacred covenant. Confess and let her go through the process of forgiving you. If divorce is the resulting consequence, remain friends with her and become a great father to your children.

so none of the adulterers were women?

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by cougarobgon

When one becomes a bishop or a stake president the "accountability" factor increases. If you believe that the statement is BS, please elaborate. At the moment, I am neither a bishop nor a stake president and currently teach primary. But, having once served in the capacity of a bishop, I expect that if I were to commit adultery today, I would be excommunicated.

In my current situation, any circumstances that would lead me to commit adultery would be irrelevant. I knowingly put my self in a situation that ended up in committing adultery, I expect to be exed. The circumstances, i.e., wife incapacitated and cannot have sexual relations, frequency of the sin, immediate confession, etc, I believe would be considered when determining the length of time before I could request a council to consider my desire to be re-baptized.

I believe that the most difficult part of the whole repentance process if one commits adultery is to confess to spouse and family. RC Vikings earlier asked what benefit is there to confessing to wife and family, thereby hurting and possibly causing a divorce? I have limited real life experience with this type of situation. During my six years as bishop, I recall only having to deal with the issue of adultery twice. And by the time the sin was confessed, the individuals had already confessed to their spouses and the spouses came with them at the time they came to see me. In both situations, both spouses were present during the disciplinary council and each asked to address the council on their spouse's behalf. As difficult as it may be to have to let your spouse know you have been unfaithful, you have betrayed her by violating a sacred covenant. Confess and let her go through the process of forgiving you. If divorce is the resulting consequence, remain friends with her and become a great father to your children.

I don't believe this is true any longer.

The reason leaders are excommunicated is to send a message to the flock, that fooling around is not something expected or tolerated. It's to make an example of the leaders.

Once you're no longer a leader, or active leader, if extenuating circumstances were to justify it, and you were adequately contrite, I see no reason why you should be excommunicated.

It's a serious mistake, and it should not be trifled with. But those who are ex'ed rarely return, so how is that going to help the sinner? Wisely, the church has turned from punishing members like unto the OT, and returned to the NT.

There is no instance of Christ casting out a member or believer, no matter the sin.

Now if you're saying, you've seen Christ, then I'd say you have greater responsibility, but just having served as Bishop, doesn't make your duty any higher.

[exUte]

Originally Posted by Archaea

I don't believe this is true any longer.

The reason leaders are excommunicated is to send a message to the flock, that fooling around is not something expected or tolerated. It's to make an example of the leaders.

Once you're no longer a leader, or active leader, if extenuating circumstances were to justify it, and you were adequately contrite, I see no reason why you should be excommunicated.

It's a serious mistake, and it should not be trifled with. But those who are ex'ed rarely return, so how is that going to help the sinner? Wisely, the church has turned from punishing members like unto the OT, and returned to the NT.

There is no instance of Christ casting out a member or believer, no matter the sin.

Now if you're saying, you've seen Christ, then I'd say you have greater responsibility, but just having served as Bishop, doesn't make your duty any higher.

1) Where much is given, much is expected.

2) Let the good times roll. Let's set up confessional booths and let the party begin.

[scottie]

Originally Posted by Archaea

...
There is no instance of Christ casting out a member or believer, no matter the sin.
...

So why does Christ's church do so today?