Do LDS bishops allow a man to baptize his kids...

[jay santos]

double post...very strange

[PaloAltoCougar]

Originally Posted by jay santos

NS's story is an interesting one.

A member who says to a bishop, I haven't paid my tithing (or lived Wow or law of chastity or whatever) due to my lack of faith or lack of effort or other human frailty, but I believe in Christ and I want to follow him and I want to be able to baptize my son. At that point a bishop lays out a relatively simple plan for the member to demonstrate a degree of faithfullness and allows the member to baptize his son. Even if the member fails to achieve the plan, if he's efforting and doesn't give up, then he's OK.

I agree with this. As a bishop, I was far more sympathetic and tolerant with the sinner that was trying to turn his life around, than with the person who had no faith and didn’t care. And I’m perplexed that non sequitur, whose thoughts and writings I’ve always enjoyed, apparently buys into the risible notion that all the bishop cared about was the money (I think he used the term money-grubbing).

Bishops do not receive, directly or indirectly, any benefit whatever from tithing funds, not even a comment from their “superiors” about the amount of tithing paid by their wards. But bishops do use tithing as one measure of a member’s desire and commitment, things non sequitur obviously lacked. I understand the absence of faith, and I respect those who have lost, or never had, a testimony. But I lose a lot of respect for them when their faithlessness develops into cynicism about the motives of those they’ve left behind.

And I’m curious why a caring father would even permit his eight year-old child to be inducted into an organization he believed was false and corrupt, much less want to participate in the process. But now I’m the one being cynical about someone’s motives, so I shall make an end.

[tooblue]

Originally Posted by PaloAltoCougar

I agree with this. As a bishop, I was far more sympathetic and tolerant with the sinner that was trying to turn his life around, than with the person who had no faith and didn’t care. And I’m perplexed that non sequitur, whose thoughts and writings I’ve always enjoyed, apparently buys into the risible notion that all the bishop cared about was the money (I think he used the term money-grubbing).

Bishops do not receive, directly or indirectly, any benefit whatever from tithing funds, not even a comment from their “superiors” about the amount of tithing paid by their wards. But bishops do use tithing as one measure of a member’s desire and commitment, things non sequitur obviously lacked. I understand the absence of faith, and I respect those who have lost, or never had, a testimony. But I lose a lot of respect for them when their faithlessness develops into cynicism about the motives of those they’ve left behind.

And I’m curious why a caring father would even permit his eight year-old child to be inducted into an organization he believed was false and corrupt, much less want to participate in the process. But now I’m the one being cynical about someone’s motives, so I shall make an end.

You should be warned that according to this site Bishops are the George Bush of the LDS Church.

What I have gleaned from participation on Cougar Guard … Bishops are intellectually inferior, can do no right and ultimately are merely a pawn of the larger conglomerate. They equally deserve pity and condemnation. No one wants to be one and yet everyone is certain he/she can do the job better than the incumbent of his or her respective Ward … summarily everything and nothing is the Bishop’s fault.

Of course one might surmise that such notions and the contempt shown Bishops thinly veils a longing for the calling

[PaloAltoCougar]

Originally Posted by tooblue

You should be warned that according to this site Bishops are the George Bush of the LDS Church.

I've lurked enough to know there's a fairly wide range of opinions concerning bishops, and those whose opinions I respect are pretty much correct in their view of bishops as good but imperfect men who are often, but by no means always, inspired and inspiring. It would be kind of fun to be bishop of Cougarguard and preside over this rabble.

In our stake, we were encouraged to come up with a theme one year along the lines of famous mottos like, "Lengthen Your Stride", "Do It", etc. I selected "Let the Good Times Roll," and we did just that.

[exUte]

Originally Posted by non sequitur

My son wanted me to baptize him, so I did what I had to do honor my son's wishes. I didn't care who baptized him; it's a gesture that was important to my son, not to me.

I'm interested that you characterize my disagreement as a tantrum. You're not exactly the type of person to pass up an opportunity to express your disagreement with others. Do you consider your constant bitching and moaning to be nothing more than tantrum throwing?

or have you talked him out of being duped by money-grubbing adults?

[exUte]

Originally Posted by ilmf

if he isn't a full tithe payer?

"An ordinance is a sacred act, such as baptism, that is performed by the authority of the priesthood.

Brethren who perform ordinances and blessings should prepare themselves by living worthily and striving to be guided by the Holy Spirit.

Only brethren who hold the necessary priesthood and are worthy may perform an ordinance or blessing ........"

So you know the answer better than anyone on this board.

If, however, you are like non sequitor, why even go through the motions? I guess it was like his son asking for a specific flavor of ice cream and he indulged him. That's the height of hypocricy. Act like you believe it but don't.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by tooblue

You should be warned that according to this site Bishops are the George Bush of the LDS Church.

What I have gleaned from participation on Cougar Guard … Bishops are intellectually inferior, can do no right and ultimately are merely a pawn of the larger conglomerate. They equally deserve pity and condemnation. No one wants to be one and yet everyone is certain he/she can do the job better than the incumbent of his or her respective Ward … summarily everything and nothing is the Bishop’s fault.

Of course one might surmise that such notions and the contempt shown Bishops thinly veils a longing for the calling

Methinks you are overreacting for emphasis. Bishops are to be respected for the time and devotion they have for their church and members of their ward. I can't imagine a clear thinking person even without a testimony not respecting what they do. Criticizing or questioning a Bishops decision is not an attack on Bishops.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by PaloAltoCougar

I've lurked enough to know there's a fairly wide range of opinions concerning bishops, and those whose opinions I respect are pretty much correct in their view of bishops as good but imperfect men who are often, but by no means always, inspired and inspiring. It would be kind of fun to be bishop of Cougarguard and preside over this rabble.

In our stake, we were encouraged to come up with a theme one year along the lines of famous mottos like, "Lengthen Your Stride", "Do It", etc. I selected "Let the Good Times Roll," and we did just that.

One of your acts as Bishop is "legend" according to my broher.

[non sequitur]

Originally Posted by PaloAltoCougar

And I’m curious why a caring father would even permit his eight year-old child to be inducted into an organization he believed was false and corrupt, much less want to participate in the process. But now I’m the one being cynical about someone’s motives, so I shall make an end.

I didn't want to participate in the process, but I didn't feel it was my place to prevent my son from being baptized if that was his desire. I was also respecting the desires of my wife.

I didn't mean to hit such a nerve with the story of my son's baptism. To me, baptizing my son was nothing more than a gesture. It didn't have a lot of meaning to me. If I was out of line in the way I dealt with my bishop, then so be it. I behave the same way when the Hertz agent tries to foist a Taurus or a Corolla on me.

BTW, I don't think the Church is corrupt. It is, indeed, false, and is often misguided, but its members and leaders are more often than not sincere. Though some might not believe it, I do have a degree of respect for the Church.

[non sequitur]

Originally Posted by exUte

If, however, you are like non sequitor, why even go through the motions? I guess it was like his son asking for a specific flavor of ice cream and he indulged him. That's the height of hypocricy. Act like you believe it but don't.

Why not go through the motions? And you're right, it was like my son asking for a specific flavor of ice cream. If he wants pistachio ice cream, I don't have to have a testimony of that flavor to give it to him. It's not hypocrisy, it's indifference.