What if a couple married, wife is pregnant, husband dies - Page 5 - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

Indy Coug · 11-13-2007, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burning Bright

I don't think it does, but I'm not positive.

It doesn't. Waters keeps trying to protray this as a situation where the mother doesn't have a choice, which is patently false.

Burning Bright · 11-13-2007, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

What about saying something over the pulpit? We were forcefully told over the pulpit that it is never right for a single mom to keep the kid, because the kid would be better off in a family with both parents.

Widowed mothers are not single mothers.

MikeWaters · 11-13-2007, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

It doesn't. Waters keeps trying to protray this as a situation where the mother doesn't have a choice, which is patently false.

She has the choice to disobey advice/commandment (depending on your interpretation) which will not likely end in formal disfellowship or excommunication, but could lead to other forms of disapproval and ostracization.

MikeWaters · 11-13-2007, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burning Bright

Widowed mothers are not single mothers.

Are divorced moms single moms?

If a woman is pregnant, and during presidency the husband and wife get divorced?

(of course I know that this is like saying what if aliens came down, because it can never happen in real life).

SoCalCoug · 11-13-2007, 09:13 PM

Indy: I don't disagree with the statistics. In most cases, children are better off with a mother and a father. But I think Mike is highlighting the problem that comes with making a hard and fast rule based on statistical probabilities.

Would you agree that the general practice in the church is to counsel unwed pregnant mothers who are not in a position to marry the child's father to give the child up for adoption? If so, then I think that's strict enough of a rule to fit Mike's definition.

The problem is, when an individual is faced with a decision of what to do, the statistics don't predestine one result over the other.

I agree with Mike that perhaps there needs to be less strict of an application of the principle of unwed mother adoption and more emphasis on personal revelation in the matter.

If everyone is encouraging one path over another, are they really saying she has a choice?

Indy Coug · 11-13-2007, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Are divorced moms single moms?

If a woman is pregnant, and during presidency the husband and wife get divorced?

(of course I know that this is like saying what if aliens came down, because it can never happen in real life).

Anyone honestly reading that document wouldn't conclude that your divorce/death scenarios are what this document is intended to address.

The wording of this is obviously intended to address young expectant mothers that have never been married.

RockyBalboa · 11-13-2007, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

She has the choice to disobey advice/commandment (depending on your interpretation) which will not likely end in formal disfellowship or excommunication, but could lead to other forms of disapproval and ostracization.

If there were any discipline it certainly wouldn't come in the form of "disagreeing/disobeying advice to put the child up for adoption.

It would come from violating the law of chastity which is an entirely different topic.

Indy Coug · 11-13-2007, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCalCoug

If everyone is encouraging one path over another, are they really saying she has a choice?

Yes.

MikeWaters · 11-13-2007, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Anyone honestly reading that document wouldn't conclude that your divorce/death scenarios are what this document is intended to address.

The wording of this is obviously intended to address young expectant mothers that have never been married.

So a woman who was divorced 5 years ago, and now pregnant by another man and not married?

I'm trying to figure out who this applies to. What ages are young? At what age does the advice no longer apply?

Those statistics are worthless if they are national statistics. You know that as well as I. The outcomes for a middle class white Mormon teenage girl who keeps her kid are not going to be the same as the average unwed mother.

Indy Coug · 11-13-2007, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Those statistics are worthless if they are national statistics. You know that as well as I. The outcomes for a middle class white Mormon teenage girl who keeps her kid are not going to be the same as the average unwed mother.

The likely outcome isn't going to be the same for a 30 year old divorcee as they are for a 17 year old pre-HS graduate.

11-13-2007, 09:13 PM	#45
SoCalCoug Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Orange County, California Posts: 3,059	Indy: I don't disagree with the statistics. In most cases, children are better off with a mother and a father. But I think Mike is highlighting the problem that comes with making a hard and fast rule based on statistical probabilities. Would you agree that the general practice in the church is to counsel unwed pregnant mothers who are not in a position to marry the child's father to give the child up for adoption? If so, then I think that's strict enough of a rule to fit Mike's definition. The problem is, when an individual is faced with a decision of what to do, the statistics don't predestine one result over the other. I agree with Mike that perhaps there needs to be less strict of an application of the principle of unwed mother adoption and more emphasis on personal revelation in the matter. If everyone is encouraging one path over another, are they really saying she has a choice? __________________ Get your stinking paws off me, you damned, dirty Yewt! "Now perhaps as I spanked myself screaming out "Kozlowski, say it like you mean it bitch!" might have been out of line, but such was the mood." - Goatnapper "If you want to fatten a pig up to make the pig MORE delicious, you can feed it almost anything. Seriously. The pig is like the car on Back to the Future. You put in garbage, and out comes something magical!" - Cali Coug